Do you ever feel let down by an amp that NEEDS a boost or OD to sound good?

[EOengineer]

Well, what I’m saying is if you can’t turn up the gain of a high gain amp without it sounding like poop and it needs a boost or EQ to make it work properly in those high gain situations, then is it really a high gain amp?

I hear you. I think the answer is still highly contextual. High gain means different things to different people.

If I’m playing Foo Fighters on my dual rectifier, it’s perfect with the guitar straight in. If I’m playing speed metal, I might use an EQ up front to trim additional lows before the first gain stage depending on which guitar or pickups I’m using.

 

[RaceU4her]

My only experience with a Klon has been the Fractal model, but this seems to be on par with everything I’ve experienced with it. It became my most-used boost for high gain amps due to not adding mid spikes and having a slower ramp-up of dirt, allowing for a bit more fine tuning. Definitely anxious to get into some physical Klones as time goes on, though.

Yeah dude, this thing is wonderful, hit up griffin at rt for one, his stuff is super legit. I have heard not all klones are the same, I might grab a few others just to see, slightly different flavors could be nice. I do have the mxr fat sugar that I guess is similar and I like that too, but that Chiron is seriously special

 

[Desertdweller]

I take the opposite approach of the idea of this thread. I **prefer** an amplifier that takes an overdrive well and let me explain why.

I’m a metal guy so I’m going to say thing from a metal context. Generally speaking, we’re dealing with pre-filtering. When you have an amplifier that already had the pre-filtering built in, you are resigned to the manufacturer’s specs and opinions of how it should work. Take the EVH red channel for example, you’re not boosting that with an overdrive as it’s already gained-out before you even hit go. You have one option with that channel and it’s what Fender wants you to have.

Contrast that with a Dual Rectifier’s modern channel. This amp does not have the pre-filtering built in and gives you a wide, thick tone to start with. You can then choose what prefiltering you want. You get that freedom of choice. Do you want to compress it? Do you want symmetrical clipping, asymmetrical clipping, a clean boost, an EQ to remove lows, maybe a mic pre for even wilder response, etc. I run about 5 or 6 different types of overdrive into my rectos and i can get wildly different tones from the same amp and channel as a result.

I fully control my gain staging with these amps. So no, I don’t view it as let down to be able to more freely express myself and not be tied down by the constraints of the manufacturer.

 

[la szum]

Well, what I’m saying is if you can’t turn up the gain of a high gain amp without it sounding like poop and it needs a boost or EQ to make it work properly in those high gain situations, then is it really a high gain amp?

Poop is highly subjective. One person's poo is another person's passion.

I get what you are saying, though. I feel much the same about "modding" amps....
and guitars..... and tits.... and faces.

 

[GreatGreen]

I take the opposite approach of the idea of this thread. I **prefer** an amplifier that takes an overdrive well and let me explain why.

I’m a metal guy so I’m going to say thing from a metal context. Generally speaking, we’re dealing with pre-filtering. When you have an amplifier that already had the pre-filtering built in, you are resigned to the manufacturer’s specs and opinions of how it should work. Take the EVH red channel for example, you’re not boosting that with an overdrive as it’s already gained-out before you even hit go. You have one option with that channel and it’s what Fender wants you to have.

Contrast that with a Dual Rectifier. This amp does not have the pre-filtering built in and gives you a wide, thick tone to start with. You can then choose what prefiltering you want. You get that freedom of choice. Do you want to compress it? Do you want symmetrical clipping, asymmetrical clipping, a clean boost, an EQ to remove lows, etc. I run about 5 or 6 different types of overdrive into my rectos and i can get wildly different tones from the same amp and channel as a result.

So no, I don’t view it as let down to be able to more freely express myself and not be tied down by the constraints of the manufacturer.

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself. Somebody give this man a medal.

With an amp already filtered and shaped at the input, it's going to sound exactly one way forever, so you better hope your pickups and speakers work with it perfectly or else it's going to sound wrong even though it technically "doesn't need a boost" or bass cut or whatever.

But with an amp that's minimally filtered and that is highly dynamic, the classic example being the Mesa Recto like you mentioned, then YOU get to add your own filtering and compression to tailor the amp to do exactly what you want.

This also doesn't just apply to modern metal guys. Even in the realm of crystal clean tones, you have an entire pedal industry's worth of compressors and other boost-adjacent effects that just about everybody uses. Are you let down when a clean amp "needs" a compressor to sound good? I'm certainly not. Actually, to add to your point, if you like compression, then your ideal amp would probably give you the most uncompressed signal possible so you'd have the most room to compress it exactly how you want.

"Guitar tone" isn't some monolithic thing that begins and ends inside some amp, but rather it is the entire chain of everything between the musician's brain and the listener's brain. There's no reason to arbitrarily limit the colors on your palette. Use what is necessary to get the sound out of your head and into the mixing board.

 

[DrewJD82]

I take the opposite approach of the idea of this thread. I **prefer** an amplifier that takes an overdrive well and let me explain why.

I’m a metal guy so I’m going to say thing from a metal context. Generally speaking, we’re dealing with pre-filtering. When you have an amplifier that already had the pre-filtering built in, you are resigned to the manufacturer’s specs and opinions of how it should work. Take the EVH red channel for example, you’re not boosting that with an overdrive as it’s already gained-out before you even hit go. You have one option with that channel and it’s what Fender wants you to have.

Contrast that with a Dual Rectifier’s modern channel. This amp does not have the pre-filtering built in and gives you a wide, thick tone to start with. You can then choose what prefiltering you want. You get that freedom of choice. Do you want to compress it? Do you want symmetrical clipping, asymmetrical clipping, a clean boost, an EQ to remove lows, maybe a mic pre for even wilder response, etc. I run about 5 or 6 different types of overdrive into my rectos and i can get wildly different tones from the same amp and channel as a result.

I fully control my gain staging with these amps. So no, I don’t view it as let down to be able to more freely express myself and not be tied down by the constraints of the manufacturer.

My Red channel is boosted

But I also keep the Gain on 4 on the amp and the boost isn't adding any dirt, just some mids. I could do the same with an EQ, but I didn't. Honestly, I forget it's even in the Rhythm preset until I look at the signal chain.

 

[Chocol8]

I feel much the same about "modding" amps....
and guitars..... and tits.... and faces.

Yes, Yes, No, NO!!!!

 

[HomespunEffects]

Poop is highly subjective. One person's poo is another person's passion. …

I don’t kink shame.

 

[Desertdweller]

My Red channel is boosted

But I also keep the Gain on 4 on the amp and the boost isn't adding any dirt, just some mids. I could do the same with an EQ, but I didn't. Honestly, I forget it's even in the Rhythm preset until I look at the signal chain.

Hey you do you!

Going in the opposite direction have you ever experimented with lowering the gain on the red channel? I particularly love throwing a 12au7 in V2, it's a lower gain tube and it will open up the entire gain knob sweep. Otherwise it's totally saturated by 9 o'clock on the dial and what's the fun in that?

 

[DrewJD82]

Hey you do you!

Going in the opposite direction have you ever experimented with lowering the gain on the red channel? I particularly love throwing a 12au7 in V2, it's a lower gain tube and it will open up the entire gain knob sweep. Otherwise it's totally saturated by 9 o'clock on the dial and what's the fun in that?

Endless pinch harmonics by breathing on the strings?

I'd definitely be interested in changing the tube there to lower the gain, it's definitely the most distortion I've ever used on anything in my life....and that includes 15-year old/got my first Metal Zone era. I dialed the boost in doing palm mutes, trying to get the initial attack a bit 'firmer', if that makes sense, with the Nazgul in the guitar.

 

[maddnotez]

It's very rare I find an amp that doesn't need a boost for me. Most amps just don't have enough saturation for the high gain brutality.

Sure you don't need all the gain, especially in the studio but for real life use boost = good.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Nope. I have a Diezel and an Orange, same as you. Those things need a boost to my ears to get to the level I want them to be, as far as feel and end tones go. KSE started boosting 5150s in the early 2000s and it’s been my go to ever since.

I don’t know of any amp I’ve played in the last 20 years that hasn’t needed that for me, at least for tight technical metal.

Doom and sludge obvi are different things, but as I’m 80/20 on metal and sludge nah.

 

[Michael Mars]

I think most pro bands have huge pedal boards. Why limit an amp to what it can do stand alone?

Experimentation is fun. Combining built in and pedals takes me to weird places sometimes.

 

[DrewJD82]

Nope. I have a Diezel and an Orange, same as you. Those things need a boost to my ears to get to the level I want them to be, as far as feel and end tones go. KSE started boosting 5150s in the early 2000s and it’s been my go to ever since.

I don’t know of any amp I’ve played in the last 20 years that hasn’t needed that for me, at least for tight technical metal.

Doom and sludge obvi are different things, but as I’m 80/20 on metal and sludge nah.

Mesa Marks are really the only amp I'll happily play without feeling like I need a boost. It's not the amount of gain for me, it's tightening up the low end/palm mutes. While I CAN play a non-boosted 5150 and after some twiddling, generally have something that'll work fine, I prefer it with a boost because I prefer them with the Gain around 5, after that it's too saturated for me.

Or my 5153, I keep the Gain at 3.5 - 4 and boost it with an SD-1 because it gets just a pinch 'sharper' sounding.

 

[Orvillain]

Mesa Marks are really the only amp I'll happily play without feeling like I need a boost. It's not the amount of gain for me, it's tightening up the low end/palm mutes. While I CAN play a non-boosted 5150 and after some twiddling, generally have something that'll work fine, I prefer it with a boost because I prefer them with the Gain around 5, after that it's too saturated for me.

Or my 5153, I keep the Gain at 3.5 - 4 and boost it with an SD-1 because it gets just a pinch 'sharper' sounding.

Yeah the Mark defo doesn't need a boost. I'm reasonably happy with a non-boosted 5150 type amp, but a recto defo needs a boost for me. I don't really think the JVM needs one either. Orange does, and the Diezels defo sound better with a boost.

When boosting, I tend to also turn up the bass knob on the channel EQ on the amp - puts some of the beef back in, without the fuzzy saturation.

 

[HomespunEffects]

I hear you. I think the answer is still highly contextual. High gain means different things to different people.

If I’m playing Foo Fighters on my dual rectifier, it’s perfect with the guitar straight in. If I’m playing speed metal, I might use an EQ up front to trim additional lows before the first gain stage depending on which guitar or pickups I’m using.

Yeah, I am pretty sure that I read the thread out of context. Personally, I can’t imagine boosting a Peavey 5150 or a Dual Rectifier. However, I am looking at the situation from a non-metal perspective. I’ll bet I’m the only one here that got rid of his Dual Rectifier because the clean channel sucks.

 

[DrewJD82]

Yeah the Mark defo doesn't need a boost. I'm reasonably happy with a non-boosted 5150 type amp, but a recto defo needs a boost for me. I don't really think the JVM needs one either. Orange does, and the Diezels defo sound better with a boost.

When boosting, I tend to also turn up the bass knob on the channel EQ on the amp - puts some of the beef back in, without the fuzzy saturation.

I've played one 90's Recto that didn't need a boost and could still do tight palm mutes without an issue, I'm pretty certain it was a Rev G (or whichever one they just started remaking), but outside of that, fully agreed. The last 3-channel I had I absolutely hated.

 

[HomespunEffects]

… The last 3-channel I had I absolutely hated.

Mine was a non-multiwatt 3 channel. I did actually hate it.

The Mark Five:35 that i had was Actually excellent though. Still traded it.

 

[dronerstone]

Hmm... Valid points there, but I don't agree 100%. My Ampeg VT-22 is like that. It's clean and very bold/direct, and will not show any hair before getting ungodly loud.

In a way that's what most big-iron NMV amps (e.g. Twin) do, but they tend to sound great with the right pedals - like they were made for each other.

Anyhow, different approaches and different appeal. Depends on where you'd like to get your drive from.

 

[Orvillain]

The last 3-channel I had I absolutely hated.

Oh I absolutely love mine. But yeah, defo needs a boost. Once you do though.... it is unreal. Lovely cleans too.