krankenstein
Roadie
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Do you ever feel let down by an amp that NEEDS a boost or OD to sound good?
- Thread starter Orvillain
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Tbh I do have big beef with amps that tend to need a boost to sound their best. Although Iām probably more forgiving than some (I never boosted my roadster and it was fine)
My main problem is that I do so much switching between āpretty cleanā and ārip your head off high gainā that a boost presents its challenges
HOWEVER
I hate to suddenly be a Klone nutswinger but holy shit talk about a game changerā¦. The archer ikon is possibly one of the most elite purchases Iāve made in years over allā¦.
The way I have it set up is just a āclean tone enhancerā if I happen to have it on, and the if itās engaged when switching to high gain it does the boost thing in spades. Particular standout with my badlander
My main problem is that I do so much switching between āpretty cleanā and ārip your head off high gainā that a boost presents its challenges
HOWEVER
I hate to suddenly be a Klone nutswinger but holy shit talk about a game changerā¦. The archer ikon is possibly one of the most elite purchases Iāve made in years over allā¦.
The way I have it set up is just a āclean tone enhancerā if I happen to have it on, and the if itās engaged when switching to high gain it does the boost thing in spades. Particular standout with my badlander
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It's never bothered me, I actually prefer to 'finish off' a tone with one, either to shape the tone a bit going in or make it more friendly to play, but it's such an individual choice thing that I'm perfectly fine using my own preferred pedals over something built-in.
GreatGreen
Roadie
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- 303
Some people want magic black boxes that do everything for them. A turn-key solution to the amazing tight high gain rockstar tone of their dreams, but with no scary thinking required.
What difference does it make if the part of your sound that tightens and/or compresses the signal at the earliest stages in the amp come from inside the amp right after the input jack, or right before it in a drive pedal? There is no difference, not in any real practical sense. Being against boosting is a strange idea perpetuated by people who have weird fetishes for some nebulous idea of tonal "purity" (as if that even means anything) and who would rather worship some singular idealized piece of gear they can put on a pedestal.
The way I see it is that you can try to get lucky with an amp that uses filtering and extra gain staging that just so happens to fit your guitar, cab, and playing exactly right for your ear and hope the rest of the amp also sounds how you want as well, or you can buy a relatively unfiltered amp with a core tone you really like, to which you can apply your own boost as you have chosen.
Of course boosting isn't mandatory, obviously, but to go so far as to be actively opposed to it or any other tone shaping tool out of some misguided sense of purity is just silly.
What difference does it make if the part of your sound that tightens and/or compresses the signal at the earliest stages in the amp come from inside the amp right after the input jack, or right before it in a drive pedal? There is no difference, not in any real practical sense. Being against boosting is a strange idea perpetuated by people who have weird fetishes for some nebulous idea of tonal "purity" (as if that even means anything) and who would rather worship some singular idealized piece of gear they can put on a pedestal.
The way I see it is that you can try to get lucky with an amp that uses filtering and extra gain staging that just so happens to fit your guitar, cab, and playing exactly right for your ear and hope the rest of the amp also sounds how you want as well, or you can buy a relatively unfiltered amp with a core tone you really like, to which you can apply your own boost as you have chosen.
Of course boosting isn't mandatory, obviously, but to go so far as to be actively opposed to it or any other tone shaping tool out of some misguided sense of purity is just silly.
EOengineer
Rock Star
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Youāre painting with broad strokes here, but there can be significant differences between the boost techniques employed by amps vs external pedals. Sure, some amp circuits use diodes like a tubescreamer or SD-1, but others are adding additional 12ax7s and operating at voltages that arenāt typical in pedals. There can be big headroom and dynamics differences between those approaches.
Iād argue itās far less likely people are chasing purity than they are simply finding the tone they are looking for without needing additional boosts or drives.
Itās not 1980 anymore, weāve learned some things about creating more responsive high gain amps.
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I donāt really like boosting high gain amps. If they need ātighteningā just to function thatās a fault in the design.
krankenstein
Roadie
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- 103
Exactly. Good amp gives good core sound simple as it is.
Different pickups, different styles exist and boosting doesn't apply to everything. No need to limit the amp.
krankenstein
Roadie
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- 103
It's same than not liking eq pedals. If amps need further equalisation then all amps are faulty by the design. But are they?
They are just for flexibility; situational tools for all kind of needs. Making it possible to play doom metal with looser bass or thrash metal with tighter bass with the pretty same amp. All you need is just one or two pedal instead of buying 2 different amps.
nicolasrivera
Roadie
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- 522
I have several amps and none of them can fully satisfy me 100% with out the need of some kind of boost. There is no one perfect amp, not even a Dumble.
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If it needs an EQ to function properly? Thatās a problem. It better be a cheap amp.
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RaceU4her
Roadie
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- 386
Tbh I do have big beef with amps that tend to need a boost to sound their best. Although Iām probably more forgiving than some (I never boosted my roadster and it was fine)
My main problem is that I do so much switching between āpretty cleanā and ārip your head off high gainā that a boost presents its challenges
HOWEVER
I hate to suddenly be a Klone nutswinger but holy shit talk about a game changerā¦. The archer ikon is possibly one of the most elite purchases Iāve made in years over allā¦.
The way I have it set up is just a āclean tone enhancerā if I happen to have it on, and the if itās engaged when switching to high gain it does the boost thing in spades. Particular standout with my badlander
Iāve been preaching about my Griffin Analog Chiron that is some exact tolerance spec klone, itās literally like a magic box for me. I never knew anything about klons other than they go for ridiculous amounts of money, and I never really heard of high gain guys using them, thought they were more some sort of creamy overdrive for blues players.. but this thing just adds the perfect amount of everything without really changing the amps character at all, and best of all gives all my amps that kind of iic+ liquidy bounce that is so addictive. i can understand now why real ones have the hype they do and go for ridiculous amounts of money
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I mean, ampās having an EQ right on the front are there for a reason.
While I strongly prefer not to use an additional EQ pedal, if I got an amp I love but Iām on the fence about the speakers itās coming out of I might slap an EQ in the loop to shape it before sorting out the ideal speaker for it. Or if you get into a room with a stage thatās boomy AF, itād be kind of silly to change the entire amp rather than just EQāing it right there.
And considering the amount of EQ that gets applied to amps in mixes, I think the only way Iād agree with āfunction properlyā is if the only way to get the core tone from the amp was to EQ it, outside of that, they get EQād all over the place.
JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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Pro-tip: none of these "rules" are hard and fast.
RaceU4her
Roadie
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- 386
its not even totally about the amp.. you can have one amp and a few different guitars and cabs, maybe one cab has a slight resonance at 200hz or something, or a guitar that has just slightly too much low mids and sounds a little boxy, id much rather throw an eq in the loop and fix the problem than changing speakers or pickups that may just cause problems with another piece of gear. if youre recording this is all gonna be done at the board or in post anyway, id rather do it at the source
krankenstein
Roadie
- Messages
- 103
It was just an example to point out that needing further tweaking (like extra tightness, fine tuning etc) is not always about the amp quality
When I still had active pickups I never boosted them (with hi gains). I boosted JB to get rid of bass floppiness (later used eq for that). Now im boosting custom 5, i can just add more gain from amp -its a Fireball 100- but I want to keep medium output's compression and saturation for dynamic feeling. If i give more gain from fireball for extra kick it compresses and saturates more than the pedal. Because its not designed for that specific guitar/ pickup combination.
Yes probably engl fe special edition would fix all by itself but it costs 3 times more than fireball. All i need is one transparent od pedal which costs 100 euros max.
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So, you agree with me then?I mean, ampās having an EQ right on the front are there for a reason.
While I strongly prefer not to use an additional EQ pedal, if I got an amp I love but Iām on the fence about the speakers itās coming out of I might slap an EQ in the loop to shape it before sorting out the ideal speaker for it. Or if you get into a room with a stage thatās boomy AF, itād be kind of silly to change the entire amp rather than just EQāing it right there.
And considering the amount of EQ that gets applied to amps in mixes, I think the only way Iād agree with āfunction properlyā is if the only way to get the core tone from the amp was to EQ it, outside of that, they get EQād all over the place.
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My only experience with a Klon has been the Fractal model, but this seems to be on par with everything Iāve experienced with it. It became my most-used boost for high gain amps due to not adding mid spikes and having a slower ramp-up of dirt, allowing for a bit more fine tuning. Definitely anxious to get into some physical Klones as time goes on, though.
Chocol8
Roadie
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- 817
Pick up a Wampler Tumnus for a high quality but reasonably priced Klone.
EOengineer
Rock Star
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If weāre talking about an amp that needs a boost or EQ to be useful at all, as in making any sound, then I might agree with you. Iām not really sure how literal the thread title is.
Iām reading the comments as being tilted more heavily towards āneed an EQ or boost to be used in X contextā as our use cases all vary so much.
A 100w Superlead will be useless to a metal guy without an overdrive, unless of course he can dime it. Similarly, that 5150 head probably isnāt going to satisfy the blues lawyer.
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Well, what Iām saying is if you canāt turn up the gain of a high gain amp without it sounding like poop and it needs a boost or EQ to make it work properly in those high gain situations, then is it really a high gain amp?