Digital Igloo (Eric Klein, YGG)

[ragingplatypi]

Roland sold so many VS-880s back in the day that they threw one particular Christmas party on a big yacht. This was before my time there, however.

I remember it being a complete bear to use, but man, that box did everything. Probably would've gotten one myself but by that time, I was neck deep in Akai DR4d and later, DR16.

Yeah it was a bear to use, but at the time I naively had brand loyalty to Roland, so it actually seemed intuitive compared to the keyboards I had before. Also, it was more affordable than a computer that could run Cubase, so I just put up with it.

Funny to hear the corporate story as it’s hard for me to imagine that many of any musical gear item being sold.

I actually heard that the inventors of the Zip drive sold to Iomega for something like a million dollars, and were torn apart with regret because it was right at the beginning of the tech boom and they realized they could have made so much more.

 

[laxu]

My post was in response to a post by nominal ("It works for Line6. I haven’t seen any Helix or Helix Rack owners complaining about firmware being held up due to focus on say, the HX Stomp.", in effect, that if Line 6 can release updates for multiple models at once, why can't Fractal?

With Fractal you can follow Axe-Fx 3 updates and as a FM3/FM9 owner go "I want all that too!" Then when those updates seem to be slow, people get antsy about it.

Helix owners aren't complaining because they don't know what to expect. We have very little idea what Helix 3.8 will include beyond some hints dropped by Digital Igloo.

 

[zib]

hi DI and forumers.
two little ideas to extend "sustainable development" for Helix.
• as low budget profile readers are trendy (ToneX and One, new NAM player...)
I wonder if Helix could run a NAM profile reader (and embed a few profiles) ?
(If I remember well, DI already answered something like "yes" technically but "no" for other reasons).
• Is an "alternative" and "open" (but official) firmware possible for Helix ?
Imagine a common "core" with selectable items (for eg. 10 amps among the whole catalogue...)
Thank you.

 

[molul]

An alternative and open firmware sounds like something extra to maintain (expensive) that could lead to new bugs (expensive).

What would be the idea behind that alternative firmware? Removing blocks you're not interested in?

 

[zib]

What would be the idea behind that alternative firmware? Removing blocks you're not interested in?

yes, a customed firmware proposing among 500% of amps, effects and choosing a bunch of them to fit 100%.
For eg. a Bass Helix, a Vocal Helix, an Acoustic guitar Helix, a Platypus Helix...

 

[molul]

Idea is nice, but I don't see how it would be appealing for Líne6. So much cost, no benefit.

 

[dronerstone]

yes, a customed firmware proposing among 500% of amps, effects and choosing a bunch of them to fit 100%.
For eg. a Bass Helix, a Vocal Helix, an Acoustic guitar Helix, a Platypus Helix...

I'd do that via Favorites, if really needed, tbh.

 

[zib]

Yes, might be a huge work for Line6, but a simple (spartan) manager ?
Zoom did it for MS50G :

MS-50G Effect Manager

zoomcorp.com

 

[quadgear]

Alternative firmware would be interesting/useful on the lower end devices like the Pod Express, Catalyst, less so on the more capable Pod Go. Pick and shoose which of N amps and M effects you want (or different curated sets from Line6). Unlikely to happen due to effort to build/dial in/maintain and reduces some of the pressure to by/upgrade to a more powerful Line6 device.

Perhaps eventually (reluctantly?) Line6 will add a profile player block (perhaps NAM) but maybe not in (some) current gen devices. Say what you want, this technology is very useful/effective and we'll likely see it spread into the market in other brands.

 

[Digital Igloo]

I wonder if Helix could run a NAM profile reader (and embed a few profiles) ?
(If I remember well, DI already answered something like "yes" technically but "no" for other reasons).

AFAIK, any hardware currently claiming to run NAM utilizes nerfed (or "lite") captures. Presumably, Helix and other flagship modelers would need to do the same?

Is an "alternative" and "open" (but official) firmware possible for Helix? Imagine a common "core" with selectable items (for eg. 10 amps among the whole catalogue...)

Models are typically made up of many smaller component DSP blocks, and all of these blocks already exist in the system. New amps and effects are created using existing blocks, so there's not really any memory limit for new amps or effects unless a particular amp or effect's behavior is so unique that it requires completely new DSP blocks. We're adding new DSP all the time, and still have plenty of room. Even if we were to run out years from now, technically, we'd still be able to make thousands of new amps and effects with existing DSP.

It's not unlike Legos. Helix has a ton of (almost) every type of lego in every color and shape so Sound Design can build pretty much whatever they could possibly dream up. But sometimes to completely nail the Death Star you need a custom gray round top cap piece; that means the DSP team has to fabricate one... with math.

Now would we ever open up our entire DSP tools to the public? I guess that depends on our customers. If you're tweaky enough to really want to dig in and adjust every possible coefficient by hand, you probably already own an Axe FX III. And maybe you're into MaxMSP. That level of granularity typically attracts users deep into the 20% of the 80/20 rule. But if five years from now, it's suddenly super trendy for users to build amp and effects models from the digital subcomponent on up, it's something we might consider.

InMusic is uniquely qualified to deliver something like this, as Headrush Prime allegedly runs some variation of the Revalver plugin and I remember that being super tweaky back in the day.

 

[Los-D]

AFAIK, any hardware currently claiming to run NAM utilizes nerfed (or "lite") captures. Presumably, Helix and other flagship modelers would need to do the same?Models are typically made up of many smaller component DSP blocks, and all of these blocks already exist in the system. New amps and effects are created using existing blocks, so there's not really any memory limit for new amps or effects unless a particular amp or effect's behavior is so unique that it requires completely new DSP blocks. We're adding new DSP all the time, and still have plenty of room. Even if we were to run out years from now, technically, we'd still be able to make thousands of new amps and effects with existing DSP.

It's not unlike Legos. Helix has a ton of (almost) every type of lego in every color and shape so Sound Design can build pretty much whatever they could possibly dream up. But sometimes to completely nail the Death Star you need a custom gray round top cap piece; that means the DSP team has to fabricate one... with math.

Now would we ever open up our entire DSP tools to the public? I guess that depends on our customers. If you're tweaky enough to really want to dig in and adjust every possible coefficient by hand, you probably already own an Axe FX III. And maybe you're into MaxMSP. That level of granularity typically attracts users deep into the 20% of the 80/20 rule. But if five years from now, it's suddenly super trendy for users to build amp and effects models from the digital subcomponent on up, it's something we might consider.

InMusic is uniquely qualified to deliver something like this, as Headrush Prime allegedly runs some variation of the Revalver plugin and I remember that being super tweaky back in the day.

(Any 5150 III Lego blocks around? Asking for a friend)

 

[Digital Igloo]

(Any 5150 III Lego blocks around? Asking for a friend)

View attachment 22003

There's nothing special about the 5153 that would require additional DSP components, so yes, we have all the lego pieces to build one.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

There's nothing special about the 5153 that would require additional DSP components, so yes, we have all the lego pieces to build one.

Wouldn't it be much cooler to build a JVM anyway?

 

[laxu]

Now would we ever open up our entire DSP tools to the public? I guess that depends on our customers. If you're tweaky enough to really want to dig in and adjust every possible coefficient by hand, you probably already own an Axe FX III. And maybe you're into MaxMSP. That level of granularity typically attracts users deep into the 20% of the 80/20 rule. But if five years from now, it's suddenly super trendy for users to build amp and effects models from the digital subcomponent on up, it's something we might consider.

Even most Fractal owners never touch the advanced amp controls. They like the idea, then try it for themselves and find out that they aren't designing the new super amp, if even getting anything better than the original. At least that's how it went for me so I would just swap amp models, use input/output EQ etc.

Similarly, majority of capture users are not profiling their own amps, which is the way to get the most mileage out of them. The popularity of captures is part of the "hey, I got a great sound without doing any real work!" thing where people just scroll through captures until they land on something they like as is. The next step is probably asking AI assistants to find you a sound since curation and discovery is not that great on any capture platforms.

A lot of newer players also tend to go for "I want to play song X -> I download some preset for song X" workflows, whereas I assume most people here are experienced enough that they build their own presets to match their tastes rather than try to nail the exact recorded sound of a particular song.

I understand the appeal of that, because when you are less experienced, you are in the phase where you are more concerned with actually being able to play. I still haven't really figured out how to use my Hydrasynth Explorer to the fullest, instead I'm just tweaking presets a bit to my liking and scroll around until I find something I like, and then learning to play. I'm a total beginner at synths, so figuring out how to adjust a pile of filters and oscillators is probably the same way people feel about amps, cabs, mics etc in any modeler. Daunting, foreign and much harder to approach than "load another capture" or "load another preset".

 

[zib]

There's nothing special about the 5153 that would require additional DSP components, so yes, we have all the lego pieces to build one.

I always considered modellers to be "color bringers" to the sound. I wonder why Helix is not yet a vocal and studio machines modeller.
As it is "ask me anything", here's a "dreamer" question : is that "core" (I don't know if that is the correct term for it, call it "locomotive" if you prefer) able to model things like (I name a few of them just for "droolers" like me) :
• Compressors (API 25, BBE Sonic Maximiser, DBX 160SL, EMT 156, Fairchild 670, JoeMeek SC2, Manley Vari Mu, Neve Portico 5043, Universal Audio 1176, Urei 1176...)
• Consoles (BBC Mixer, Neve8014, SSL 4000E, SSL 9000K, Trident 80B...)
• Enhancers (Aphex Aural Exciter, Dolby A, Dolby Model363, Dolby SR, SPL Vitalizer...)
• Preamps (API 512; Avalon VT-737SP; Drawmer 1960; Focusrite Red 8; Manley VoxBox; Neve 1272; Neve 33114; Neve 33619; Neve Portico 5012; SPL Gainstation; SPL Goldmike; SSL Logic FX G383; Teletronix LA-2A; Teletronix LA-3A; True Systems Precision 8...)
• Tapes (Akai 4000DS MkII; Ampex ATR102; Empirical Labs Fatso; Hitachi D22 Type I; Hitachi D22 Type II; Lafayette Radio RK-142; NAG Tape; Neve Portico 5042; Otari MTR-10; Revox B77; Revox PR99; Sony TC-640; Studer A80; Studer A800 Mk3; TEAC W-6004; Technics 671; Technics RS-B405; Telefunken V72; Wollensak 1515...)

 

[Digital Igloo]

I always considered modellers to be "color bringers" to the sound. I wonder why Helix is not yet a vocal and studio machines modeller.
As it is "ask me anything", here's a "dreamer" question : is that "core" (I don't know if that is the correct term for it, call it "locomotive" if you prefer) able to model things like (I name a few of them just for "droolers" like me) :
• Compressors (API 25, BBE Sonic Maximiser, DBX 160SL, EMT 156, Fairchild 670, JoeMeek SC2, Manley Vari Mu, Neve Portico 5043, Universal Audio 1176, Urei 1176...)
• Consoles (BBC Mixer, Neve8014, SSL 4000E, SSL 9000K, Trident 80B...)
• Enhancers (Aphex Aural Exciter, Dolby A, Dolby Model363, Dolby SR, SPL Vitalizer...)
• Preamps (API 512; Avalon VT-737SP; Drawmer 1960; Focusrite Red 8; Manley VoxBox; Neve 1272; Neve 33114; Neve 33619; Neve Portico 5012; SPL Gainstation; SPL Goldmike; SSL Logic FX G383; Teletronix LA-2A; Teletronix LA-3A; True Systems Precision 8...)
• Tapes (Akai 4000DS MkII; Ampex ATR102; Empirical Labs Fatso; Hitachi D22 Type I; Hitachi D22 Type II; Lafayette Radio RK-142; NAG Tape; Neve Portico 5042; Otari MTR-10; Revox B77; Revox PR99; Sony TC-640; Studer A80; Studer A800 Mk3; TEAC W-6004; Technics 671; Technics RS-B405; Telefunken V72; Wollensak 1515...)

As cool as it would be to have all these, I fear they'd be lost on the vast majority of guitarists. Imagine these could best be served by some sort of capture system. Or in some cases, perhaps even an IR.

True Systems Precision 8

I know Tim Spencer from back in my Tucson retail days. Super nice guy.

You can emulate the Precision 8 right now:

1. Add a Volume/Pan > Gain block.
2. Leave Gain set to 0.0dB.
3. Bypass block to taste.

 

[zib]

I keep this setting if, one day, I have to cover Placebo

 

[Orvillain]

InMusic is uniquely qualified to deliver something like this, as Headrush Prime allegedly runs some variation of the Revalver plugin and I remember that being super tweaky back in the day.

I suspect there isn't much appetite for building that part of it out, for the same reasons you've highlighted.

 

[Orvillain]

Even most Fractal owners never touch the advanced amp controls. They like the idea, then try it for themselves and find out that they aren't designing the new super amp, if even getting anything better than the original. At least that's how it went for me so I would just swap amp models, use input/output EQ etc.

I just want Cliff to do it for me, coz I'm lazzzzzyyyyyyy.

 

[Frodebro]

It's not unlike Legos. Helix has a ton of (almost) every type of lego in every color and shape so Sound Design can build pretty much whatever they could possibly dream up. But sometimes to completely nail the Death Star you need a custom gray round top cap piece; that means the DSP team has to fabricate one... with math.