Desktop Audio Interface - UAD Apollo or something else?

[Blix]

Realistically, if I needed to expand ins and outs I'd probably just get a different interface. Back when I played drums and recorded my bands, I had an ADA8000 running into a sound card into my PC and that worked fine. But I'd probably spring for something like a Clarette 8Pre at the least.

So I'd say my priority is something with a good desktop form factor and really good sound quality for 2 ins and 2 outs under $1000. ADAT might be nice to run my Axe 3 in via ADAT/SPDIF conversion but not necessarily major.

Take a look at the Avid MBox Studio, supposed to be very good sounding and have have very nice features. Considering one myself.

 

[Sascha Franck]

and how many ADAT capable preamps are actually THAT good?

From all I know, the EVO SP8 is good enough for anything that you'd throw at it unless you're a big guy. And even in that case it might be sufficient.

Add in some conversion boxes to go from AES or SDPIF to ADAT and there’s tons of points of failure.

With the EVO SP8 you'd simply add a 20 bucks SPDIF/Toslink adapter.
Connections wearing out and what not shouldn't be any issue, simply because this setup will not be moved all the time (if at all).

Clocking over ADAT is generally a bit crap too.

Usually not with RME. Besides, you likely wouldn't have to worry at all in case your main converter box is just one single main converter box.

I’m not sure how you can look at what @Jarick is looking for in the OP and land on Behringer (or audient) and a Digiface. You’ll get bottom rung conversion, bad headphone outs, poor control (at least without an ARC) and a ton of redundancy.

The Behringer might've been a bit of a crap shoot (I've used it myself with decent results, though), the EVO SP8 is quite a decent unit. For around 1k you get a whole lot of options, flexibility and great performance.
Whether he needs all that (I thought so because of his wish for additional inputs) is an entirely different question, but the Digiface, EVO and ARC combo is a very, very legit one, not causing you much headaches, either (others than measuring converter latency for once and then set your audio driver menu's recording offset accordingly, if that's even required).

 

[Sascha Franck]

Take a look at the Avid MBox Studio, supposed to be very good sounding and have have very nice features. Considering one myself.

Nice featureset, but according to this Sound On Sound review (which I consider trustworthy), latency is anything but great. Even so much it might get in the way (for example when using a plugin adding the odd millisecond or two...).

 

[Blix]

Nice featureset, but according to this Sound On Sound review (which I consider trustworthy), latency is anything but great. Even so much it might get in the way (for example when using a plugin adding the odd millisecond or two...).

Ah sucks. I rarely pay attention to latency specs as I use direct monitoring with my Fractal.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ah sucks. I rarely pay attention to latency specs as I use direct monitoring with my Fractal.

Yeah, in case you only need an interface for recording (or direct monitoring, which most of them do just fine) and some virtual instrument playing (which causes somewhat less latency and shouldn't be an issue for keyboard hacks like me anyway...), you'll be just fine.
Personally, I'm however quite happy I went with a super low latency interface - not only because I wanted it for mobile usage but also because sometimes I just enjoy being able to try out whatever new plugins, NAM profiles and what have you.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

From all I know, the EVO SP8 is good enough for anything that you'd throw at it unless you're a big guy. And even in that case it might be sufficient.



With the EVO SP8 you'd simply add a 20 bucks SPDIF/Toslink adapter.
Connections wearing out and what not shouldn't be any issue, simply because this setup will not be moved all the time (if at all).



Usually not with RME. Besides, you likely wouldn't have to worry at all in case your main converter box is just one single main converter box.



The Behringer might've been a bit of a crap shoot (I've used it myself with decent results, though), the EVO SP8 is quite a decent unit. For around 1k you get a whole lot of options, flexibility and great performance.
Whether he needs all that (I thought so because of his wish for additional inputs) is an entirely different question, but the Digiface, EVO and ARC combo is a very, very legit one, not causing you much headaches, either (others than measuring converter latency for once and then set your audio driver menu's recording offset accordingly, if that's even required).

ADAT is still the worst option out of the digital I/O, but it’s convenient if you need more channels on a budget. OP doesn’t need that, so I don’t think it’s worth factoring. I use ADAT on my RME and I’ve depended on ADAT for years. I also think it’s a bit crap but I don’t really fancy the other options for my needs.

Audient SP8 is absolutely fine, but redundant here too. The cost of one of them could be put towards something more useful. If it’s for recording drums, yeah fair enough.

Digiface, EVO and ARC

It’s all good gear to expand an existing setup, but totally wrong here IMO. No MIDI, one “utility” headphone output, tons of unused digital ports. 8 Lineouts without dedicated monitoring outputs that aren’t going to be particularly high spec. 500k Ω 10dBu instrument inputs isn’t amazing, nor is 12dBu max level on the line outs. Fine as additional channels, not really an improvement over a Motu M4.

And as acceptable as the EVO might be, it’s absolutely not a step up from the MOTU, so in most ways, this rig would be a downgrade

 

[pipelineaudio]

Something else? ANYTHING else, aside from maybe antelope or something as silly

 

[Jarick]

alright I got one vote for a bunch of non desktop gear wired together with a remote, another vote for a non desktop interface twice my budget, and a vote for what looks like a DJ turntable

 

[Sascha Franck]

Well, if you really only need stereo I/O, I would simply recommend to stick with the Motu.

 

[Jarick]

Decided to roll the dice and pick up the used Apollo Twin X. I traded in my Yamaha HS8's and they gave me a surprisingly good value on those. Also got a 6 foot Thunderbolt 4 cable which seems to barely be long enough. Good lord those are expensive, but thanks Amazon same day shipping.

Installation was almost rising up to IK levels of "why?" - but UAD actually had great documentation on how to install on a Mac so no issues. I did have to clear 17 GB of space (!!!!!!) for some reason. For a minute there I was really thinking "well I probably should just have gone with RME" but found some old EX Drummer samples I wasn't using and moved them on out.

It's up and running and works really well! I can't pretend to hear a difference yet but I really like this form factor and how they have all the metering. There's a lot more juice in this compared to the MOTU. I barely have the volume cracked on this to drive the monitors, even with the monitor input trim all the way down.

Console isn't too bad to figure out yet. I did Google how to turn the computer audio down, and first result recommended to map in Audio MIDI settings to the virtual 1/2 channels, then drop that fader down. That's easy enough.

I think I have to unregister the Apollo from the old user and reregister to mine, because I have a ton of plugins available to me lol. I was messing around with the Softube Plexi and wow straight out of the gate it's a killer Plexi tone without touching anything at all. Also no perceivable latency.

So now there will be the temptation to grab some bundle plugins, like that $300 one that includes basically anything I'd ever want including the new UAD amp plugins. I'll be honest if they release an Ox Stomp plugin that would be absolutely amazing.

Gonna do dishes for about two hours now and then mess around with it a little later tonight.

 

[2112]

A nice plus with the UA is how LUNA integrates with console. If I was doing commercial mixing work I'd choose a more established DAW but for recording demos and YT vids it covers everything I was paying to do in ProTools.

I get a lot of use from the Distressor, 224 & Neve Preamp plugins. The amp plugins work well too!

 

[Shredder777]

Ah sucks. I rarely pay attention to latency specs as I use direct monitoring with my Fractal.

IMO, even with Fractal, you are going to want the lowest latency, because you will find native sims have advantages during production. Having to reamp to external hardware is a pita.

Most of the ones in the earlier list are not as good as your Motu M4 regarding latency besides the RME.

The RME converters aren't as good as the latest generation from the last year, unless you buy their mastering converters.

If you need more processing power, build a better computer. It is much more cost effective than UAD apollo and will run many more.

Currently the best usb latency is RME, followed by Motu on Mac and Presonus Quantum on PC. The latest Motu 828 and Presonus Quantum HD interfaces have better conversion than RME standaloone units like the Babyface and UFX3.

You will have a hard time improving much on the Motu M4, unless you need more inputs and/or a slight increase in fidelity. The Motu 828 Or Presonus Quantum HD8 are the best all around picks in a consumer interface in 2024. Some of the other ones like the Audient sound amazing but again, the latency not quite there.

You could get an RME digiface and a rack of external converters, but again, anything not released in the past year or so is not going to match the 828 or HD8 (-123db s/n). The built in mic pres also have a ton of gain. The Ferrofish ADACs are popular but not quite there unless you need a additional eight for tracking a band. I wouldn't buy an RME digiface unless you get something better than the Ferrofish. Behringer isn't even in the discussion.

Appolo usb latency is horrible and you are locked into their plugin ecosystem. It was great ten years ago, but for same price you can build a top of line machine that will probably double or quadruple your processing power depending on what you have now.

If you are on a Mac and have thunderbolt, a case might be made for apollo, but I have heard it has worse latency than RME usb because of all the extra dsp processing it has.

Good luck.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Currently the best usb latency is RME, followed by Motu on Mac and Presonus Quantum on PC.

I remember reading that the lastes Quantum HDs (HD2 and HD8) wouldn't be too great regarding latency. Likely in the huge GS thread, but I can't find it right now (GS' search function is an offense to human intelligence).

 

[Shredder777]

I remember reading that the lastes Quantum HDs (HD2 and HD8) wouldn't be too great regarding latency. Likely in the huge GS thread, but I can't find it right now (GS' search function is an offense to human intelligence).

The new usb quantums are not as good as the old thunderbolt ones in RTL, but they have direct monitoring and a full mixer interface, unlike the original quantum TBs. I own the HD8 and usb RTL numbers are better that anything except latest rme. There are alot of sour grapes from the old tb quantum users saying they shouldnt have used the name for their new usb interfaces if its not as fast as the old interface. But again, it has a full mixer app and direct monitoring that the original quantum did not have. And the audio specs are MUCH better.

The guy running the GS thread did not test the HD8 or 828 afaict despite saying that they would, but i havent checked it since I bought the HD8. In the GS thread they are all very pro-RME, so of course anything that does not beat the RME is a "no buy" even if the conversion is better.

 

[Jarick]

A nice plus with the UA is how LUNA integrates with console. If I was doing commercial mixing work I'd choose a more established DAW but for recording demos and YT vids it covers everything I was paying to do in ProTools.

I get a lot of use from the Distressor, 224 & Neve Preamp plugins. The amp plugins work well too!

I bought Logic Pro last year which covers more than enough of what I'd need from a recording standpoint. I don't use 99% of the functionality of Logic anyway.

I don't know how much of the UAD plugins I'd want to use outside of some good channel strips and bus comps. Back when I was in real bands I would do all our recordings, and at some point I switched over to using SSL channel strip plugins and LOVED it.

But it looks like with UAD plugins available Native, I'd be able to run those SSL strips off my Mac rather than the Apollo, which would be nice.

IMO, even with Fractal, you are going to want the lowest latency, because you will find native sims have advantages during production. Having to reamp to external hardware is a pita.

Most of the ones in the earlier list are not as good as your Motu M4 regarding latency besides the RME.

The RME converters aren't as good as the latest generation from the last year, unless you buy their mastering converters.

If you need more processing power, build a better computer. It is much more cost effective than UAD apollo and will run many more.

Currently the best usb latency is RME, followed by Motu on Mac and Presonus Quantum on PC. The latest Motu 828 and Presonus Quantum HD interfaces have better conversion than RME standaloone units like the Babyface and UFX3.

You will have a hard time improving much on the Motu M4, unless you need more inputs and/or a slight increase in fidelity. The Motu 828 Or Presonus Quantum HD8 are the best all around picks in a consumer interface in 2024. Some of the other ones like the Audient sound amazing but again, the latency not quite there.

You could get an RME digiface and a rack of external converters, but again, anything not released in the past year or so is not going to match the 828 or HD8 (-123db s/n). The built in mic pres also have a ton of gain. The Ferrofish ADACs are popular but not quite there unless you need a additional eight for tracking a band. I wouldn't buy an RME digiface unless you get something better than the Ferrofish. Behringer isn't even in the discussion.

Appolo usb latency is horrible and you are locked into their plugin ecosystem. It was great ten years ago, but for same price you can build a top of line machine that will probably double or quadruple your processing power depending on what you have now.

If you are on a Mac and have thunderbolt, a case might be made for apollo, but I have heard it has worse latency than RME usb because of all the extra dsp processing it has.

Good luck.

I am running a Mac M1 via Thunderbolt. So I did a quick test using the guitar to the instrument input of the Apollo and into NDSP Plini X. The latency I can get just as low as the MOTU without dropouts (something like 96 samples at 48 kHz). It's to the point I can't really feel it, which is where I typically am with the Fractal.

The plugins are a curiosity for me but honestly a big thing is the form factor. I keep my desk low, so I'm high above the device. I really wanted to get a unit with controls and meters on the top which is easier to see and adjust. Here's a quick "on the desk" comparison from my POV:

The other thing I'm noticing that's an improvement for me is being able to adjust line input gain. On the MOTU, the Fractal comes in around -6 dB and the QC comes in around -10 dB. So I'm constantly going into the output block of the modeler to check the gain to make sure I'm not too loud or quiet. Now with the Apollo, I can boost the line gain so I hit orange at -3 dB peak, and then just that as a reference point.

So really it's about QOL features for me. Everything I listed the RME Babyface Pro would be able to do as well, but I figured I'd try the Apollo first because it was $350 cheaper, I could get it locally right away, and I could trade in and get rid of my big Yamaha HS8 monitors at the same time.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I own the HD8 and usb RTL numbers are better that anything except latest rme.

So, what exactly are the numbers? Couldn't you just do a quick check using the RTL Utility from Oblique?

 

[Shredder777]

So, what exactly are the numbers? Couldn't you just do a quick check using the RTL Utility from Oblique?

im looking for the screenshot.

Someone posted RTL for the HD8 in that GS thread. Mine were almost identical if you can find that.

From memory, the best @ 96K was 3.5ms, and I think at 48K it was 4.5ms.

 

[Sascha Franck]

From memory, the best @ 96K was 3.5ms, and I think at 48K it was 4.5ms.

So that's not as good as the Motus.

 

[Shredder777]

I am running a Mac M1 via Thunderbolt. So I did a quick test using the guitar to the instrument input of the Apollo and into NDSP Plini X. The latency I can get just as low as the MOTU without dropouts (something like 96 samples at 48 kHz). It's to the point I can't really feel it, which is where I typically am with the Fractal.

I didnt know you were on a mac, but with thunderbolt on a mac, the apollo becomes a top choice.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I am running a Mac M1 via Thunderbolt. So I did a quick test using the guitar to the instrument input of the Apollo and into NDSP Plini X. The latency I can get just as low as the MOTU without dropouts (something like 96 samples at 48 kHz). It's to the point I can't really feel it, which is where I typically am with the Fractal.

How can't you get lower with the Motu? I can run my M2 at 32 samples all throughout on an M3 Macbook air (but an M1 should be absolutely sufficient) in Logic, resulting in a RTL value of 3.5ms at 44.1.