Desktop Audio Interface - UAD Apollo or something else?

[Jarick]

Now that I've upgraded my studio monitors and finally happy with those, I'm looking to upgrade my interface next. I've got a MOTU M4 now and it doesn't sound bad, but I don't like the layout and want to step up a bit.

My wish list for features:

• Quality sound (converters, headphone amp, preamps)
• Main connections on the back
• Big volume knob on top
• Doesn't pop monitors when powering on/off
• ADAT/SPDIF a plus
• Instrument connection on front a plus

Some options I'm considering:

• UAD Apollo Twin X
  • Pros: very popular and pretty well regarded, perfect hardware layout, dedicated power for standalone operation, DSP for plugins could be useful, ADAT expandability
  • Cons: mixed reviews if the audio quality is worth the cost, Thunderbolt cable and connection
• Apogee Duet 3
  • Pros: regarded as excellent converters and audio quality, bus powered for simplicity
  • Cons: breakout cable and dock both look cheap, no controls other than single knob, limited connections
• RME Babyface Pro FX
  • Pros: everybody and their grandma loves RME drivers and quality, bus powered, solid controls on device, ADAT expandability
  • Cons: lots of connections on the sides which could be a mess on the desk
• SSL 2+ Mk2
  • Pros: lots of physical controls on top, direct mix knob, lower price, dual headphone jacks would be nice
  • Cons: not sure if audio quality is in the same ballpark, really big on the desk, limited connections
• Audient ID24
  • Pros: dedicated monitor volume and headphone knobs, programmable buttons, lower price
  • Cons: again not sure about audio quality, limited meetering

 

[Sascha Franck]

Will you be using it strictly as a desktop unit in one location?

 

[Jarick]

Will you be using it strictly as a desktop unit in one location?

Yes, just in my home office.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, next question: What signals will you be running into it? And will they be connected at all times?

 

[Jarick]

Ok, next question: What signals will you be running into it? And will they be connected at all times?

Computer audio and a stereo feed from a modeler. Stereo feed could be digital from the Axe 3 or could be analog from the Fractal or others. DI connections from guitar or bass to run through plugins. I very rarely use any mics and if I do drums that's all MIDI.

Perfect world I'd love to have multiple modelers hooked up and easily switchable, but I'll probably downsize just to the Fractal at some point.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Reason I'm asking: If you add a little money, you could likely get one of RME's Digifaces and an external converter (the 8 channel one of Behringer is decent). Hide them somewhere and add an RME ARC (dedicated USB remote control for their interfaces) and have as little clutter as it gets.

 

[Sascha Franck]

RME Digiface + RME ARC + Behringer ADA8200 = <€800 (incl. german tax)

 

[Jarick]

RME Digiface + RME ARC + Behringer ADA8200 = <€800 (incl. german tax)

Well that's a clever solution. I do think RME Fireface + ARC would be killer but that's nearly $2k.

Wouldn't I need some kind of ADAT output converter as well? Seems like a lot of hardware to deal with.

 

[Jarick]

Also for right now I'm playing around with using the Axe 3 as the audio interface, running into a Mackie Big Knob to control volume, and then running that into my monitors. It's not bad.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Well that's a clever solution. I do think RME Fireface + ARC would be killer but that's nearly $2k.

Wouldn't I need some kind of ADAT output converter as well? Seems like a lot of hardware to deal with.

do your monitors have digital I/O?

I’d swerve the Behringer ADA8200, the preamps sound ok but it’s noisy and not high quality. I wouldn’t really want that as the basis of my rig, and overall you’d have a downgrade from the MOTU. ADAT cables are a bit crappy too, the Digiface is a handy box but it’s more of a problem solver than something I’d build a rig around.

I’d genuinely think about whether you want a desktop unit, I usually prefer to get all the cabling out of the way and hidden. Fireface UCX+ARC would be really good.

I’d also maybe consider Prism Lyra, Lynx Hilo and Neumann (merging) MT48. They’re a bit more expensive but they’re genuinely reference class gear that is as good as you can get.

 

[Jarick]

Forgot about the Audient stuff, added that to the mix

 

[Jarick]

do your monitors have digital I/O?

I’d swerve the Behringer ADA8200, the preamps sound ok but it’s noisy and not high quality. I wouldn’t really want that as the basis of my rig, and overall you’d have a downgrade from the MOTU. ADAT cables are a bit crappy too, the Digiface is a handy box but it’s more of a problem solver than something I’d build a rig around.

I’d genuinely think about whether you want a desktop unit, I usually prefer to get all the cabling out of the way and hidden. Fireface UCX+ARC would be really good.

I’d also maybe consider Prism Lyra, Lynx Hilo and Neumann (merging) MT48. They’re a bit more expensive but they’re genuinely reference class gear that is as good as you can get.

Unfortunately no, just XLR/balanced inputs.

I've definitely thought about a rack interface as the future expansion could be nice, but the volume control throws me for a loop. Maybe that's where the Mackie Big Knob comes in.

Maybe I ought to just live with the Fractal into the Big Knob for a bit and see how that works out.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Wouldn't I need some kind of ADAT output converter as well? Seems like a lot of hardware to deal with.

That's what the Behringer is doing. Sure, it's more hardware, but once connected, you can hide everything but the ARC (unless you need to permanently adjust input gains).

 

[Sascha Franck]

the Digiface is a handy box but it’s more of a problem solver than something I’d build a rig around.

How so? I may agree on the Behringer (but there's others with better quality), but the Digiface is all RME quality. Super low latency, ongoing driver support.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Audient

How so? I may agree on the Behringer (but there's others with better quality), but the Digiface is all RME quality. Super low latency, ongoing driver support.

Digiface isn’t converting signals (aside from the headphone amp which isn’t anything special). It takes digital signals in and sends digital signals out. Latency wouldn’t be constrained by the digitace, the A/D converters would have their own latency to factor in, and same on the output.

If someone already has a load of gear ADAT already, it’s a handy way of combining different gear for lots of channels. As the basis for a rig I don’t think it makes much sense, unless you’re planning on combining lots of different gear and need big I/O counts. On top of that, you may well need several toslink converter boxes to get the connectors all to match up.

I was considering buying one for a while, but couldn’t justify all the hassle that goes with it,

 

[MirrorProfiles]

volume control throws me for a loop

I’ve been through this recently, and it’s what swayed me towards RME. The ARC remote is great, and it’s so much better not having a passive controller where audio passes through the volume knob (where all kinds of inconsistencies can appear). Having the Behringer ADA and mackie big knob would be a pretty sizeable downgrade from what you have now, it’s the lowest tier you can really get.

Another benefit of UCX over digiface is you get all the dsp stuff in total mix. You’ll get various analog and digital I/O, MIDI, and it can either sit on your desk or in a rack easily.

I would absolutely consider Neumann/Merging, Lynx and Prism too though!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Other shit to consider:

- Thunderbolt can be a thunderbastard. Check out what the maximum cable length is, and how much fibre optic cables cost. It’s overkill for most basic interface needs
- digital I/O, think about what gear you may want to combine later to expand the unit
- HW monitor control. UA Apollo Twin’s can be used with the rack units to add extra DSP and to work as a monitor controller for both units. Apogee and RME also do HW remotes.
- DSP, tracking through UAD plugins can be nice. You probably won’t need DSP for your monitors but it can be nice to eq your headphones with harmon correction curves, or to time align subs or do crossovers etc.
- Maybe worth thinking about how many channels you need. No point paying for more preamps that’ll never get used when the money could go towards better converters or a better headphone amp or something.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Digiface isn’t converting signals (aside from the headphone amp which isn’t anything special). It takes digital signals in and sends digital signals out.

I'm absolutely aware of that. But it comes with RME's ridiculously good drivers, runs their TotalMix software (without FX, but that really shouldn't matter in this case), allows for any kinds of routings and what not. Plus, it can be controlled by their ARC box.

As the basis for a rig I don’t think it makes much sense, unless you’re planning on combining lots of different gear and need big I/O counts. On top of that, you may well need several toslink converter boxes to get the connectors all to match up.

No. There's quite some 8 I/O converter boxes around, requiring one single toslink cable per in and out. And in case you want to step up from the Behringer, no problem, there's things such as Audient's EVO SP8. 8 combo ins, 2 suitable for instrument signals, 8 line outs. Along with RME's superb routing options, you could instantly set it up to feed different monitors (and comfortably switch between them via ARC), monitor any input you like directly, route it anywhere and what not.
Really, an incredibly flexible solution.
The EVO SP8 kicks in at €424, package of Digiface, ARC and SP8 would be around €1000 (including 19% german tax).
A very capable setup.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I'm absolutely aware of that. But it comes with RME's ridiculously good drivers, runs their TotalMix software (without FX, but that really shouldn't matter in this case), allows for any kinds of routings and what not. Plus, it can be controlled by their ARC box.

Right, but you’re still at the mercy of whatever else is in your chain. That means different clocking, latencies (which you’d have to align manually if you care about having all your inputs and outputs aligned!). I don’t think it’s a good option here, most other RME products will be a better fit.

No. There's quite some 8 I/O converter boxes around, requiring one single toslink cable per in and out. And in case you want to step up from the Behringer, no problem, there's things such as Audient's EVO SP8. 8 combo ins, 2 suitable for instrument signals, 8 line outs. Along with RME's superb routing options, you could instantly set it up to feed different monitors (and comfortably switch between them via ARC), monitor any input you like directly, route it anywhere and what not.
Really, an incredibly flexible solution.
The EVO SP8 kicks in at €424, package of Digiface, ARC and SP8 would be around €1000 (including 19% german tax).
A very capable setup.

is OP actually looking for that much I/O though? and how many ADAT capable preamps are actually THAT good? They’re useful workhorses if you need a lot of channels but any half decent (say Focusrite ISA 828 or the 8 channel Neve) get very pricey.

Add in to that, where while your average Audient 8 channel type A/D uses ADAT toslink ports, lots of guitar modellers, DAC’s, mic pre’s, rack FX use (more dependable) connections like AES/EBU or SPDIF. Toslink connectors quickly wear away on the sides and get loose and fall out. Add in some conversion boxes to go from AES or SDPIF to ADAT and there’s tons of points of failure.

Clocking over ADAT is generally a bit crap too.

Total mix is great but many companies offer comparable routing with their DSP mixers. UA Console, Metric Halo, Apogee etc are all very capable.

I’m not sure how you can look at what @Jarick is looking for in the OP and land on Behringer (or audient) and a Digiface. You’ll get bottom rung conversion, bad headphone outs, poor control (at least without an ARC) and a ton of redundancy.

 

[Jarick]

Realistically, if I needed to expand ins and outs I'd probably just get a different interface. Back when I played drums and recorded my bands, I had an ADA8000 running into a sound card into my PC and that worked fine. But I'd probably spring for something like a Clarette 8Pre at the least.

So I'd say my priority is something with a good desktop form factor and really good sound quality for 2 ins and 2 outs under $1000. ADAT might be nice to run my Axe 3 in via ADAT/SPDIF conversion but not necessarily major.