Axe III/FM9: So For All The Hype Over Dual Amps, How Many Really Use Them?

[Stone]

As Im becoming more and more a Fractal Power User, I absolutley love dual amps wether i combine/blend them or use 2 differnt types when switching scenes
So for me I love it
YMMV

 

[TSJMajesty]

Usually there is just too much effort required to balance them so that they actually end up sounding better than one amp. Modelers are just poorly suited for this with the way their per-block editing works, you end up jumping between blocks to try to get them to work well together.

Have you ever incorporated a Mixer Block into a dual amp preset to help with the balancing?

 

[SwirlyMaple]

I use dual amps split by a stereo chorus often in my Helix for exactly this reason:

(Video should start playing at 9:50 automatically)


It sounds glorious

 

[laxu]

Have you ever incorporated a Mixer Block into a dual amp preset to help with the balancing?

Yes. That works if the issue is only with volume, but usually it's both the tone of the amps and their volume balance.

 

[quadgear]

Modelers that technically support dual amps but they just run the same modeling on both sides. Strymon Iridium is a good example of this. The stereo doesn't necessarily add or detract anything. I don't know if "dual mono" would be more appropriate term here because unless something else before its input changes L/R sounds to differ, it's going to sound the same on both sides.

I assume that the modelers which support this, support changing the amp on each side. These would be modelers that allow stereo blocks before the amp block

Most modelers run in mono until you hit your first stereo effect. There's no reason to run in stereo until then.

Perhaps there's an edge case, where they run in stereo to the same model in stereo, but that seems odd from a GPU perspective (unless there a low limit to the memory/code space used by each different modeler that goes away when it's the same model on both sides).

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

It has channels if I am correct. the way I understand that makes it so one can have 4 amps in a preset. Here

Don’t get them started….

 

[laxu]

I assume that the modelers which support this, support changing the amp on each side. These would be modelers that allow stereo blocks before the amp block

Most modelers run in mono until you hit your first stereo effect. There's no reason to run in stereo until then.

Perhaps there's an edge case, where they run in stereo to the same model in stereo, but that seems odd from a GPU perspective (unless there a low limit to the memory/code space used by each different modeler that goes away when it's the same model on both sides).

Most of the amp sim pedals just run the same amp/cab simulation on each side of a stereo input signal as a dual mono setup without ability to dial each side separately.

More complex modelers like Helix etc may offer separate stereo in/out option for this or you can run two different amp blocks in parallel.

 

[Jwdubois]

The III has a few dual amp presets like "Jim & Leo" that sound pretty good, but the ones I tried to do myself weren't all that great, so I quit bothering with it.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I’ve never even tried it. Just don’t care. Triple Crown, Recto, SLO or JP2C, and done.

 

[northern_fox]

iirc it's very hard to get things in phase properly and I usually find I like one better than both going back in A/B anyway

 

[Piing]

I use dual amps when the source is the SY-1000 or the VG-99 guitar models, because I can pan the strings and other things in stereo (Axe-FX Amps are Mono).

Or assign a bass guitar to the 5th and 6th strings and route them to a Bass AMP/CAB, and strings 1-4 to a guitar AMP/CAB.



To be really happy, I would actually need 6 instances of the AMP and all the other blocks, to process the 6 strings separately (the Axe-FX III has 7 inputs: one for each string from a divided-pickup, and another for the regular pickups)

I also use two instances of the amp block in almost all my presets. Not simultaneously, but because we have 8 scenes and only 4 channels per block. Two amp blocks allow you to set one individual amp channel for each scene. Whether if it is the same amp or a different amp, you can freely tweak its settings for each scene without worrying about messing the other scenes, and without using tedious Scene Controllers.

AMP-1 channels A-D for scenes 1-4, AMP-2 channels A-D for scenes 5-8

I have also used the Tube-Pe AMP block in front of another AMP. e.g.: to simulate the Alembic F-2B

 

[Rock Chalk]

I love building dual amp presets on the Axe III......they sound glorious IMO. My favorite right now is one with a Friedman HBE on the left through
a Friedman GB Dyna Cab and a JP2C Yellow Shred on the right through a Recto Straight Dyna Cab........throw in North and South Church reverb
blocks panned L and R and a Ping Pong delay and look out!.........you get the idea......

 

[SwirlyMaple]

The trick to making dual amps sound good is to mix ones that have different characteristics: e.g. a brighter amp with a darker amp; a slightly gained-up amp vs. a clean amp; etc. Basically you want to stack unique response characteristics with one amp that you can't get at those same settings with the other amp. If you do it right, it gives you a very dynamic response and can add harmonic lushness that wouldn't otherwise be there.

Dual amps really shine if you can use them in stereo. That's often a nightmare live, but for recording, it's great. When used this way, I imagine them in their own separate location with their own reverb characteristics, and apply a stereo reverb to each one with slightly different early reflections and decay to make it sound like they were recorded in stereo in a studio space.

If you split them with a very subtle chorus pedal (dial the effect down to its minimum) like the clip I posted above, or really any stereo effect, it will create organic-sounding phase interactions between the cabs that will add a lush character, and if you want a wide stereo field, it will do that in spades by just panning them a bit to either side.

My last piece of advice is don't make them *too* different if you're using them to create a stereo field. If one amp is nothing but treble and the other is nothing but bass, when you combine them in stereo and pan each one slightly to the sides, it may sound too separated and lack cohesion. Can be a useful effect in moderation, but fatiguing for an entire song.

 

[Orvillain]

I do it more in the real world than I do in the digital one, for some reason. Not sure why, never really thought about it.

 

[DrewJD82]

I don’t utilize dual amps nearly as much as I thought I would. I was just able to get what I wanted with a single amp and was spending way too much time tweaking trying to get 2 amps working together.

Then I wanted to get as close as I could to Petrucci’s Awake tone, a Dual Rec and a IIC+, I ended up dialing this tone in-


Each amp is hard panned, tracked with stereo tracks, when I doubled it, I reversed the panning, so each amp ends up on both sides. I’ve got another edge of breakup preset that has a clean amp blended with the EOB amp, you get the initial attack of the clean amp that has a fairly quick drop-off in volume compared to the EOB amp, it’s tricky to get just right but gets a really dynamic sound with some nice attack/depth without getting bloated.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

I don’t utilize dual amps nearly as much as I thought I would. I was just able to get what I wanted with a single amp and was spending way too much time tweaking trying to get 2 amps working together.

Then I wanted to get as close as I could to Petrucci’s Awake tone, a Dual Rec and a IIC+, I ended up dialing this tone in-


Each amp is hard panned, tracked with stereo tracks, when I doubled it, I reversed the panning, so each amp ends up on both sides. I’ve got another edge of breakup preset that has a clean amp blended with the EOB amp, you get the initial attack of the clean amp that has a fairly quick drop-off in volume compared to the EOB amp, it’s tricky to get just right but gets a really dynamic sound with some nice attack/depth without getting bloated.

Sounds sick!!!

 

[mikah912]

Even with a FM9, I don't do it that much, but that's because I like layering tracks when recording. So I combine the different amps in different tracks, mostly. Live, a lot of those subtleties are inaudible anyway.

That being said, when it comes together, it's magic. There's a factory Fractal preset that combined multiple scenes of different AC30 variants and Plexis, and hoo boy..... it's fantastic for all things midgain. I also use their Chugnuts preset that combined multiple configurations of high gain amps.

 

[Jarick]

While it can sound really good, I rarely use them. When I got the Axe FX 3 for the second time, I made a dual amp preset kind of like The Studio Rates, with an AC30 on one side and Plexi on the other. Sounded really great. But I tend to just use one amp and then switch the channels as needed.

 

[Achilles]

Usually there is just too much effort required to balance them so that they actually end up sounding better than one amp.

Almost like I'd imagine it'd be using dual analog amps - which I've never once imagined trying.
The law of diminished returns comes to mind.

 

[OrganicZed]

If you want to run stereo delays into the front end of the amp then you need dual amps. That's a sound I like and so dual amps are a big plus for me.