You just can’t trust online information

[HomespunEffects]

We are Family by Sister Sledge is listed as being in A major online. It’s in D. I guess you could say A Mixolydian and there are borrowed chords.

Man, Nile Rogers is just the coolest and Bernard Edwards jams!

 

[TSJMajesty]

Where you going..., Ultimate Guitar? Cuz if so, they suck. Songsterr.com is great!

 

[HomespunEffects]

Where you going..., Ultimate Guitar? Cuz if so, they suck. Songsterr.com is great!

I just googled it.

 

[Chocol8]

There are a surprising number of deaf people who transcribe music, and not just for guitar. I don’t get it.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Songsterr version is pretty bad, too. I usually just listen and figure songs out. I don’t generally use tabs anymore.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Songsterr version is pretty bad, too. I usually just listen and figure songs out. I don’t generally use tabs anymore.

Hmmm, generally they're good. Even with mistakes, with the amount of crazy shit I'm trying to get under my fingers, it has saved me a lot of time.

I'm not good (nor do I want to be) at figuring stuff out by ear, but I can hear when something they tab is not right, and fix it. I guess I consider it a great starting point. (And I've tried several sites.)

Actually now that I think about it, the best tabs are ones people put up on YT, but you have to wade through the wrong ones. I'll go right to a part I know myself, and check their accuracy. But once you find a good one, they're usually spot-on.

 

[la szum]

There are a surprising number of deaf people who transcribe music, and not just for guitar. I don’t get it.

I think this is why our ears are our best friend. Or.... our worst!

 

[Frodebro]

I think this is why our ears are our best friend. Or.... our worst!

I learned to play by copying what I heard on records and cds, plus whatever TAB books were available at the local music store. No internet in those days. To this day, I still use my ear more than any transcriptions when learning stuff for the band as it's much quicker for me.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

We are Family by Sister Sledge is listed as being in A major online. It’s in D. I guess you could say A Mixolydian and there are borrowed chords.

Man, Nile Rogers is just the coolest and Bernard Edwards jams!

Why would you think it’s in D?

 

[HomespunEffects]

Why would you think it’s in D?

Well, it’s not … strictly. But it’s not in A.

The second chord is G not G#. Fourth chord has G in the root but it’s not diatonic to D.

Em7 in the verse has the G.

I’m willing to admit I’m wrong that it’s in D because of the C in the last chord in both verse and chorus. I guess he just throws them in as leading tone’s to get back to the C# in A.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Well, it’s not … strictly. But it’s not in A.

The second chord is G not G#. Fourth chord has G in the root but it’s not diatonic to D.

Em7 in the verse has the G.

I’m willing to admit I’m wrong that it’s in D because of the C in the last chord in both verse and chorus.

Well you’re wrong on both counts.

The key is defined by its tonal center which is A. End of story.

Now with key sig it pertains to the tune which is the melody.
Nowhere do your diatonic chords matter fuck all.

Modal stuff gets notated in major or minor.
As in So What which is D Dorian is Dm (and gets the Bb raised to B).

So yes the tune is in A since it’s the tonal Center.
Just like a Blues in F gets notated in F major yet the actual key by your logic would be Bb.

 

[Sascha Franck]

We are Family by Sister Sledge is listed as being in A major online. It’s in D. I guess you could say A Mixolydian and there are borrowed chords.

IMO the tonal center very clearly is A.

The key is defined by its tonal center which is A. End of story.

Defenitely.

(Ok, possibly /cue any endless "What key is Sweet Home Alabama in?" discussion)

I’m willing to admit I’m wrong that it’s in D because of the C in the last chord in both verse and chorus.

The last chord is actually an F/G. Which would render D into D minor. Something the tune clearly isn't in.
 The entire thing is in A mixolydian (just as "On Broadway" is, or the verse of "Sledgehammer" and what else), the F/G chord is taking it a tad more to "A minor-ish" territory and that's all there is about it.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

IMO the tonal center very clearly is A.



Defenitely.

(Ok, possibly /cue any endless "What key is Sweet Home Alabama in?" discussion)



The last chord is actually an F/G. Which would render D into D minor. Something the tune clearly isn't in.
 The entire thing is in A mixolydian (just as "On Broadway" is, or the verse of "Sledgehammer" and what else), the F/G chord is taking it a tad more to "A minor-ish" territory and that's all there is about it.

Well that F/G to me is a G9sus so bVII with tensions. Or alterations if you will.

I mean that whole idea of finding the key by way of diatonic chords is so guitar player specific, if someone learns the melody (the tune) of a tune then everything is pretty self explanatory.
And no let’s no do is SHA G or D lol.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Well you’re wrong on both counts.

The key is defined by its tonal center which is A. End of story.

Ok. I don’t know what that means though.

Now with key sig it pertains to the tune which is the melody.
Nowhere do your diatonic chords matter fuck all.

Diatonic doesn’t matter?

Modal stuff gets notated in major or minor.
As in So What which is D Dorian is Dm (and gets the Bb raised to B).

So yes the tune is in A since it’s the tonal Center.
Just like a Blues in F gets notated in F major yet the actual key by your logic would be Bb.

oh. I see what you’re saying. I’m talking from like a Nashville notation point of view.

I’d say this is in D and we play 5 4 1 3b/4

 

[HomespunEffects]

The last chord is actually an F/G. Which would render D into D minor. Something the tune clearly isn't in.
 The entire thing is in A mixolydian (just as "On Broadway" is, or the verse of "Sledgehammer" and what else), the F/G chord is taking it a tad more to "A minor-ish" territory and that's all there is about it.

Yes A Mixolydian is D.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Ok. I don’t know what that means though.

Diatonic doesn’t matter?

There’s no Bb in there. Please explain.

All music has a tonal Center, where the music is at rest.
In tonal music you get there by cadences that ebb and flow, tension and resolution.
In modal music you have primary chords. Which contain the modal notes. The notes that define them, and secondary chords which don’t. But no real tension and release.

Play G C D… it wants to get back to G after that’s your tonal center, your home. The rest is various shades of away.

Diatonic doesn’t matter because it’s chords they’re here to support the melody (the tune) and connect the chords before and after in a sensible way.

If diatonic chords would matter guitarists would happily ride the F note over the C or Am chord in a progression in C.

My example So What is in D Dorian. So it has the notes of C major but the key sig it’s written is Dm
Which doesn’t care that there’s a one note difference.

In other words minor has 4 notes useable between the 5th and octave and it’s still major.
We don’t call something it’s in D natural minor, D harmonic minor, D melodi Minor , D Dorian etc.
it’s in D minor.

Again thinking of 7 chords make the key is useless because by that logic resolving G7b9#5 to C would be impossible by going to C.
Using Fm7 as a sub for Fmaj7 in C same thing.
As I said they need to support the melody and make sense in terms of harmonic function.
Play B/G to C and it’s still in C.

Actually to hear the key all you need is to hear the bass movement.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Yes A Mixolydian is D.

A mixolydian has the same pool of notes as D major but it’s not a key.
And the last chord (F/G) nor the D7 later are in that pool of notes.

 

[HomespunEffects]

A mixolydian has the same pool of notes as D major but it’s not a key.

I see what you’re saying. That was my point. It’s not in A major is in A Mixolydian (D major) for the purposes of communicating. When someone says this is in A should I not expect A major?

And the last chord (F/G) nor the D7 later are in that pool of notes.

Yeah. Those are the borrowed chords i mentioned. Actually, a borrowed note, I guess. C leads to the C# in the next chord.

I would still communicate that it’s in D, implying it’s in D major for the purposes of writing a chart or analyzing the song. Is that wrong? I’ve been doing it that way forever and everyone seems to understand me.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

As for Nashville numbers I get that since it’s largely for tonal stuff in minor or major and folks seem to wanna think keycenter/parent scale the logic fails because
A Blues then would be instead of C F G being 145 in C 5 1 2 in F

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I see what you’re saying. That was my point. It’s not in A major is in A Mixolydian (D major) for the purposes of communicating. When someone says this is in A should I not expect A major?

Yeah. Those are the borrowed chords i mentioned. Actually, a borrowed note, I guess. C leads to the C# in the next chord.

I would still communicate that it’s in D, implying it’s in D major for the purposes of writing a chart or analyzing the song. Is that wrong? I’ve been doing it that way forever and everyone seems to understand me.

It’s in a A…major denotes the 3rd not the scale with the 7 in it.

I get where you coming from but again…Blues a Blues in A is A7 so it’s in D then it goes to D7 so it’s now G.
Not how it works.

As for you communicating it in D, it’s wrong.
Right pool of notes but wrong home base, and not having anything to do harmonically with it.

Try this play D major lines on top. Like B Blues licks then do the same with A.