What's The Difference Between A "Tone Capture" And An "Amp Sim" ?

[PLX]

 

[Deleted member 472]

Is this a trick question? Kind of like how the majority of people refer to profiling or capture devices as “modelers?”

 

[PLX]

Is this a trick question? Kind of like how the majority of people refer to profiling or capture devices as “modelers?”

I answered a question on the IK Multimedia sub-Reddit about the 78/79 tonex captures, and some wonk from IK Multimedia got all pissy with me about how one thing is not like the other, so I figure I'd ask the experts.

 

[[Nathan]]

Our chatgpt overlords got it right on this one:


The difference between a tone capture and an amp sim comes down to what they are modeling, how they are created, and how flexible they are.

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Amp Sim (Amp Simulator)​

What it is:
A digital recreation of a specific guitar amplifier or amp style (e.g., a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier or a Fender Twin).
How it works:
Uses algorithms (component modeling, convolution, etc.) to simulate how the actual amp behaves across a wide range of settings.
Key traits:

• Has virtual knobs like gain, EQ, volume, etc.
• You can tweak the settings just like a real amp.
• Many amp sims include built-in cabinets, pedals, and effects.
• Good amp sims are dynamic—they respond well to picking intensity, guitar volume knob, etc.

Examples:

• Neural DSP Archetype plugins
• Line 6 Helix
• Amplitube
• ToneX (amp sim mode)

---

Tone Capture / Tone Matching​

What it is:
A digital "snapshot" or profile of a specific amp's sound under specific conditions. It captures the tone rather than the behavior.
How it works:
A short audio signal (like a sine sweep or DI tone) is run through a real amp setup (including the cab, mic, mic preamp, etc.). The result is analyzed and used to create a static "match" or profile of that specific sound.
Key traits:

• Captures a very specific tone (e.g., your friend’s Marshall set to a specific gain/EQ with a particular mic).
• Often lacks the full range of tweakability or dynamics that a sim offers.
• Best used when you're trying to recreate a single, iconic sound.
• Can sound extremely realistic in that exact context.

Examples:

• Kemper Profiler (Profiling)
• Quad Cortex (Tone Capture)
• IK ToneX (Capture mode)
• Mooer GE series (Tone Capture)

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TL;DR​

Feature	Amp Sim	Tone Capture
Flexibility	High – tweak knobs, settings, etc.	Low – snapshot of one setup
Behavior	Simulates amp’s reaction and feel	Mimics sound only
Use Case	Broad amp modeling, tone shaping	Exact recreation of a captured sound
Dynamics	Often very dynamic and expressive	Depends on capture quality
Customization	Tons – gain, EQ, IRs, pedals	Limited to what was captured

 

[PLX]

Our chatgpt overlords got it right on this one:


The difference between a tone capture and an amp sim comes down to what they are modeling, how they are created, and how flexible they are.

---

Amp Sim (Amp Simulator)​

What it is:
A digital recreation of a specific guitar amplifier or amp style (e.g., a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier or a Fender Twin).
How it works:
Uses algorithms (component modeling, convolution, etc.) to simulate how the actual amp behaves across a wide range of settings.
Key traits:

• Has virtual knobs like gain, EQ, volume, etc.
• You can tweak the settings just like a real amp.
• Many amp sims include built-in cabinets, pedals, and effects.
• Good amp sims are dynamic—they respond well to picking intensity, guitar volume knob, etc.

Examples:

• Neural DSP Archetype plugins
• Line 6 Helix
• Amplitube
• ToneX (amp sim mode)

---

Tone Capture / Tone Matching​

What it is:
A digital "snapshot" or profile of a specific amp's sound under specific conditions. It captures the tone rather than the behavior.
How it works:
A short audio signal (like a sine sweep or DI tone) is run through a real amp setup (including the cab, mic, mic preamp, etc.). The result is analyzed and used to create a static "match" or profile of that specific sound.
Key traits:

• Captures a very specific tone (e.g., your friend’s Marshall set to a specific gain/EQ with a particular mic).
• Often lacks the full range of tweakability or dynamics that a sim offers.
• Best used when you're trying to recreate a single, iconic sound.
• Can sound extremely realistic in that exact context.

Examples:

• Kemper Profiler (Profiling)
• Quad Cortex (Tone Capture)
• IK ToneX (Capture mode)
• Mooer GE series (Tone Capture)

---

TL;DR​

Feature	Amp Sim	Tone Capture
Flexibility	High – tweak knobs, settings, etc.	Low – snapshot of one setup
Behavior	Simulates amp’s reaction and feel	Mimics sound only
Use Case	Broad amp modeling, tone shaping	Exact recreation of a captured sound
Dynamics	Often very dynamic and expressive	Depends on capture quality
Customization	Tons – gain, EQ, IRs, pedals	Limited to what was captured

 

[jay mitchell]

It's a completely false dichotomy. A "profiler" or "tone capture" device is a modeler. WIthout exception, they have collections of internal simulation algorithms that they combine to match the behavior of an amp using some sort of adaptive algorithm. The only difference is that these devices automate the dialing-in process, whereas a user of a "modeler" must roll his/her/their own. One major limitation of the adaptive process is that, at best, it can only achieve a match to one collection of control settings on the target amp. This may or may not pose a problem.

For some folks, an automated adaptive process will get them closer to what they want than they are able to get when left to their own devices with a modeler. For other folks, not so much.

 

[PLX]

Ok.. so in the case of the new Tonex 78/79 Van Halen collection:

Tonex is the amp sim, and the 78/79 captures are the presets ?


I'm just a retard who plays amps, so I'm tryna understand this newfangled digital audio stuff you kids are a doin' these days.

 

[sleewell]

the fuck if i know



badonk goes brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Mike Oliphant]

---

TL;DR​

Feature	Amp Sim	Tone Capture
Flexibility	High – tweak knobs, settings, etc.	Low – snapshot of one setup
Behavior	Simulates amp’s reaction and feel	Mimics sound only
Use Case	Broad amp modeling, tone shaping	Exact recreation of a captured sound
Dynamics	Often very dynamic and expressive	Depends on capture quality
Customization	Tons – gain, EQ, IRs, pedals	Limited to what was captured

Some of this is pretty questionable. What is "reaction and feel" that isn't "sound only"?

I'd also argue that profiles/captures generally do a better job of capturing how an amp responds to dynamics.

 

[jay mitchell]

I'd also argue that profiles/captures generally do a better job of capturing how an amp responds to dynamics.

That's an unsupported assertion. Neither approach - automated dial-in vs. roll-your-own - has an intrinsic algorithmic advantage. One does rely much more on the dialer's skills than the other, however.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Some of this is pretty questionable. What is "reaction and feel" that isn't "sound only"?

I'd also argue that profiles/captures generally do a better job of capturing how an amp responds to dynamics.

I’d argue that’s not necessarily the case.

 

[PLX]

I’d argue that’s not necessarily the case.

Yeah, I tried the Tonex 78/79 collection, and frankly it felt "weak".

 

[GTR37]

It's a completely false dichotomy. A "profiler" or "tone capture" device is a modeler. WIthout exception, they have collections of internal simulation algorithms that they combine to match the behavior of an amp using some sort of adaptive algorithm. The only difference is that these devices automate the dialing-in process, whereas a user of a "modeler" must roll his/her/their own. One major limitation of the adaptive process is that, at best, it can only achieve a match to one collection of control settings on the target amp. This may or may not pose a problem.

For some folks, an automated adaptive process will get them closer to what they want than they are able to get when left to their own devices with a modeler. For other folks, not so much.

I would say it’s more in line with a high quality sampler
Is that a modeller ? I don’t know

 

[PLX]

I would say it’s more in line with a high quality sampler
Is that a modeller ? I don’t know

Now I thought a "modeler" meant a hardware solution.

 

[[Nathan]]

Ok.. so in the case of the new Tonex 78/79 Van Halen collection:

Tonex is the amp sim, and the 78/79 captures are the presets ?


I'm just a retard who plays amps, so I'm tryna understand this newfangled digital audio stuff you kids are a doin' these days.

I dunno why everyone is trying to over complicate things. ToneX is a profiler and the 78/79 captures are just a set of captures or profiles aka capture pack.

It would be the same as kemper releasing a capture pack.

 

[[Nathan]]

Now I thought a "modeler" meant a hardware solution.

You are right,

if you said to someone “I want to buy a modeller” the interpretation would generally be you want a helix, fractal, quad cortex etc, any unit that runs “models”. In this context “models” refers to fully modelled amps not captures. Regardless of technicality, no one refers to tonex, kemper or nam profiles/captures as “models”.

 

[PLX]

It would be the same as kemper releasing a capture pack.

You mean that toaster thingy ?

 

[Mikael Dez]

 

[Richard_G]

It's a completely false dichotomy. A "profiler" or "tone capture" device is a modeler. WIthout exception, they have collections of internal simulation algorithms that they combine to match the behavior of an amp using some sort of adaptive algorithm. The only difference is that these devices automate the dialing-in process, whereas a user of a "modeler" must roll his/her/their own. One major limitation of the adaptive process is that, at best, it can only achieve a match to one collection of control settings on the target amp. This may or may not pose a problem.

For some folks, an automated adaptive process will get them closer to what they want than they are able to get when left to their own devices with a modeler. For other folks, not so much.

This post made me long for a capture device based on Fractal’s amp simulation tech!

 

[jay mitchell]

I would say it’s more in line with a high quality sampler

No. Sampling has no relationship whatever to capturing/profiling.