The Profiler Conumdrum

[Tito83]

That's what I meant to say (thanks @norminal )



Today, I played through my pedals into the UA Enigmatic and liked the tone. I tried to capture it with my Ampero II Stage, but I noticed a problem. The tone and feel change when you plug directly into the rig compared to when you use a profiler with the rig in its loop.



No matter the equipment, comparing a direct capture to playing through the loop of a device isn't the same.



I know this might be complicated, but I'm curious if anyone has tried to solve this issue.

 

[HomespunEffects]

I think i don’t understand the question.

 

[norminal]

I think they meant to say:

Today, I played through my pedals into the UA Enigmatic and liked the tone. I tried to capture it with my Ampero II Stage, but I noticed a problem. The tone and feel change when you plug directly into the rig compared to when you use a profiler with the rig in its loop.

No matter the equipment, comparing a direct capture to playing through the loop of a device isn't the same.

I know this might be complicated, but I'm curious if anyone has tried to solve this issue.

 

[Tito83]

I think they meant to say:

Today, I played through my pedals into the UA Enigmatic and liked the tone. I tried to capture it with my Ampero II Stage, but I noticed a problem. The tone and feel change when you plug directly into the rig compared to when you use a profiler with the rig in its loop.

No matter the equipment, comparing a direct capture to playing through the loop of a device isn't the same.

I know this might be complicated, but I'm curious if anyone has tried to solve this issue.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Ah, what is your signal path in both cases?

 

[Tito83]

Ah, what is your signal path in both cases?

ID14 is my audio interface.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Of course it’s different because one change involves both input and outputs A/D when routing with the Ampero. Input and output level of the loop and input of the Ampero might be at play. Check all levels through the signal path and check for global settings like cabs or EQ.


That would be my first step but perhaps you’ve already looked.

Neat experiment though. If I have time I’ll try to replicate the basic layouts of yours and see how it goes…. Might be fun!

 

[KingsXJJ]

Are you running anything on the Ampero or is it completely pass-through? Buffered or not?

 

[KingsXJJ]

I somehow missed the capture part.

Are you taking about going straight through the two pedals difference with tone and feel compared to a capture ran straight thru the Ampero and comparing through the Ampero (pass-thru) running the two pedals in the loop and the out the Ampero?

Maybe I should put down my vape.
LOL

PS: I really do dig my Stage. It’s great fun. I’d love to see some new firmware. They really delivered for the Stomp guys last time. I think it’s time for me to focus on this unit for a while and get to know it better. It has some sweet extras that some solid upper middle class modelers don’t and otherwise covers it’s bases well.

 

[Eagle]

That's what I meant to say (thanks @norminal )



Today, I played through my pedals into the UA Enigmatic and liked the tone. I tried to capture it with my Ampero II Stage, but I noticed a problem. The tone and feel change when you plug directly into the rig compared to when you use a profiler with the rig in its loop.



No matter the equipment, comparing a direct capture to playing through the loop of a device isn't the same.



I know this might be complicated, but I'm curious if anyone has tried to solve this issue.

The best solution is a Kemper.

 

[Tito83]

I somehow missed the capture part.

Are you taking about going straight through the two pedals difference with tone and feel compared to a capture ran straight thru the Ampero and comparing through the Ampero (pass-thru) running the two pedals in the loop and the out the Ampero?

Maybe I should put down my vape.
LOL

PS: I really do dig my Stage. It’s great fun. I’d love to see some new firmware. They really delivered for the Stomp guys last time. I think it’s time for me to focus on this unit for a while and get to know it better. It has some sweet extras that some solid upper middle class modelers don’t and otherwise covers it’s bases well.

I'm running a simple DI rig, a couple of pedals and a UA amp in a box. I'll call that my "rig". I want to capture my rig. That in theory means that, after doing the capture, running my guitar into the Ampero after capturing my rig (my capture device in this case) should sound and feel the same as running the guitar into my rig.

First step, hooking up my rig in the Ampero's loop. The first thing that happens when you start the capturing process is that it allows you to listen to what you have in the loop, and it does not sound or feel the same. So that means the capturing process is tainted from the start. Ok. You do the capture all the same, and what happens, yet again, is that the capture isn't really the very same sound or feel of my already doctored tone.

The end result is crap? No, not really. But the different in feel specially bothers me. I just wish I could get closer to what it should do ideally; Guitar -> Ampero (running my rig capture) sounding and feeling the same compared to Guitar -> rig.

 

[Tito83]

The best solution is a Kemper.

Is it impossible to get a capture/profile I like playing through? Not, not really, specially given the number of profiles out there. Not a single one of them really captured 100% correctly, but given the numbers, I'm probably find something I like.

The thing is that I want my rig captured right. I doubt a Kemper would solve this. I might be wrong though

 

[Eagle]

Is it impossible to get a capture/profile I like playing through? Not, not really, specially given the number of profiles out there. Not a single one of them really captured 100% correctly, but given the numbers, I'm probably find something I like.

The thing is that I want my rig captured right. I doubt a Kemper would solve this. I might be wrong though

The most accurate digital version of any amp I have ever used was a capture in the studio of an amp and then without moving the cab connect the Kemper . You then a/b between the amp and the Kemper through the same cab in the same spot.
It’s the closest you can get at the moment.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Are putting the pedals on the connectors shown in manual? Or in to the input and output of the effects loop?

Here’s what the manual shows.

 

[Tito83]

Are putting the pedals on the connectors shown in manual? Or in to the input and output of the effects loop?

Here’s what the manual shows.

View attachment 38646

Exactly like that.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Adjusting this?

 

[KingsXJJ]

And this?

 

[laxu]

Today, I played through my pedals into the UA Enigmatic and liked the tone. I tried to capture it with my Ampero II Stage, but I noticed a problem. The tone and feel change when you plug directly into the rig compared to when you use a profiler with the rig in its loop.

No matter the equipment, comparing a direct capture to playing through the loop of a device isn't the same.

I know this might be complicated, but I'm curious if anyone has tried to solve this issue.

The Ampero 2 range in particular allows you to optimize for latency by:

• Running a parallel signal chain avoids DSP core -> core latency. But of course limits you to 6 blocks.
• Not using cab/IR blocks.
• Not using the fx loop.

If you use a full signal chain with fx loop, you have something like maybe 6ms latency, then the UA would add another 2.4ms for a total latency of 8.4ms.

I tried on Friday to put the Ampero 2 into the Fryette PS-100 and a real guitar cab. I could feel a bit of a difference when I stripped it down to a minimum preset, but using all the fx capabilities and full signal path without fx loop was still totally fine to me.

The capture process can be sensitive to levels. I found some of my BluGuitar captures that I thought sounded really close when I had the BluGuitar -> loadbox in the A2 Stomp loop, did not sound quite right through the PS-100 + cab. By comparison one of the captures of the Amp 1 Classic channel turned out pretty close so I need to see what I did different there.