Stereo Summing vs All-Mono

[MixMinisterMike]

Which is better in your opinion?

TONEX stereo out > stereo mod pedal > stereo delay > stereo DI with sum to mono engaged > mono FoH

TONEX mono out > mono mod pedal > mono delay pedal > mono DI > mono FoH

Same pedals, stereo summed or just go mono the whole way?

Note: I use stereo maybe 15-20% of the time, the rest of the time it’s mono.

 

[Bob Zaod]

Which is better in your opinion?

TONEX stereo out > stereo mod pedal > stereo delay > stereo DI with sum to mono engaged > mono FoH

TONEX mono out > mono mod pedal > mono delay pedal > mono DI > mono FoH

Same pedals, stereo summed or just go mono the whole way?

To me a big part of the whole stereo vs mono thing in general comes down to punchy or wide. I am oversimplifying but an example would be if I am playing Pantera type stuff I want punchy. If I am playing The Police type stuff I want wide.

 

[MixMinisterMike]

Doesn’t this answer it? Or are you willing to manage a seperate set of presets for those 15/20 %?

That doesn't bother me much, but I'd more likely just run mono all the time if there are less-than-desirable impacts people have experienced from summing after vs. letting the pedals internally run mono. Also not doing Ping Pong delays so that's not really a factor for me, probably more the modulations like chorus, flanger, phaser.

 

[dk_ace]

I often play gigs where stereo works. I don’t build any patches typically that depend on stereo like ping pong stuff. When I play a gig that needs to be mono, I plug a dummy cable into one output so my helix doesn’t sum to mono and then run the other output to FOH. That way I just maintain one set of patches and don’t have the tradeoffs of getting summed to mono.

Most of the gigs I do now are on IEMs, so the stereo reverbs and subtle stereo delay things do make things feel/sound better and more interesting in my ears. In most cases what I’m doing is probably indiscernible to the audience as far as being stereo.

If a gig doesn’t have stereo sends easily ready for me, the FOH layout isn’t going to work well to stereo sounds, or the monitoring situation is going to be mono, I use the dummy plug to send only one side.

D

 

[MadMaxG79]

I often play gigs where stereo works. I don’t build any patches typically that depend on stereo like ping pong stuff. When I play a gig that needs to be mono, I plug a dummy cable into one output so my helix doesn’t sum to mono and then run the other output to FOH. That way I just maintain one set of patches and don’t have the tradeoffs of getting summed to mono.

Most of the gigs I do now are on IEMs, so the stereo reverbs and subtle stereo delay things do make things feel/sound better and more interesting in my ears. In most cases what I’m doing is probably indiscernible to the audience as far as being stereo.

If a gig doesn’t have stereo sends easily ready for me, the FOH layout isn’t going to work well to stereo sounds, or the monitoring situation is going to be mono, I use the dummy plug to send only one side.

D

Just out of curiosity: What do you use for stereo IEMs? I'm not referring to the drivers/ear plugs, just the transmitter/receiver if you're using any...

 

[dk_ace]

Just out of curiosity: What do you use for stereo IEMs? I'm not referring to the drivers/ear plugs, just the transmitter/receiver if you're using any...

Depends on the gig. Sometimes it’s a Midas rig where I have my own mini mixing console and headphone amp for my monitor mix, others it’s a full mixing desk on a Wi-Fi network with an app for controlling your mix on a phone or tablet (wireless IEM packs for this setup). Occasionally it’s a wireless rig where an engineer controls the mix.

I prefer the Midas rig just because it generally has a stand that keeps easy access to it. If I was smart, I’d get a stand for my iPhone so that when I’m controlling my mix via my phone it also has easy access.

D

 

[MadMaxG79]

Cool. So are the wireless IEM packs stereo? Is that even a thing that exists?

 

[Bruce]

To me a big part of the whole stereo vs mono thing in general comes down to punchy or wide. I am oversimplifying but an example would be if I am playing Pantera type stuff I want punchy. If I am playing The Police type stuff I want wide.

Unfortunately what you want you won’t always get. Some PAs are mono. Some soundguys simply will not run you in stereo because they’re pricks.
Best bet: either make your presets mono compatible or copy your presets and make mono versions.

 

[Bruce]

Cool. So are the wireless IEM packs stereo? Is that even a thing that exists?

Yes IEMs these days are typically stereo capable. Depending on your use, you may or may not want them in stereo. We use IEMs in mono only or our show won’t work.

 

[Bob Zaod]

Unfortunately what you want you won’t always get. Some PAs are mono. Some soundguys simply will not run you in stereo because they’re pricks.
Best bet: either make your presets mono compatible or copy your presets and make mono versions.

I do all small potatoes stuff and run my own sound but yeah very true about the sound people. I never run stereo for my guitar rig anyways.

 

[Bruce]

I do all small potatoes stuff and run my own sound but yeah very true about the sound people. I never run stereo for my guitar rig anyways.

I learned this the hard way when ping never ponged.

 

[dk_ace]

Cool. So are the wireless IEM packs stereo? Is that even a thing that exists?

Yep, they are. I’m not deep into that side of things, I just know that it works.

I get the hesitation that a lot have with stereo rigs, but they’re super useful for IEM rigs. Stereo IEM mixes are pretty superior to mono ones IME, especially anytime the band is more than let’s say 4 pieces. Much easier to get a good mix and be able to get in a good groove as a band with IEMs with a stereo monitor mix. I thought this was BS, overlly fussy, and not worth the hassle, but I’ve been converted it really is a lot better.

D

 

[Baba]

Yep, they are. I’m not deep into that side of things, I just know that it works.

I get the hesitation that a lot have with stereo rigs, but they’re super useful for IEM rigs. Stereo IEM mixes are pretty superior to mono ones IME, especially anytime the band is more than let’s say 4 pieces. Much easier to get a good mix and be able to get in a good groove as a band with IEMs with a stereo monitor mix. I thought this was BS, overlly fussy, and not worth the hassle, but I’ve been converted it really is a lot better.

D

You're goddamn right it is.

I run a Helix, after the amp/cab, I split the path, one sends mono fx to FOH, the other sends stereo FX to the 1/4" outs, which go to my stereo IEMs. It's been a godsend.

I bring the band mix in, sans guitar, via the mic input, and put that on it's own path, ALSO going to the 1/4" outs, so, I get the band in mono, and my guitar in stereo, in my ears.

 

[dk_ace]

You're goddamn right it is.

I run a Helix, after the amp/cab, I split the path, one sends mono fx to FOH, the other sends stereo FX to the 1/4" outs, which go to my stereo IEMs. It's been a godsend.

I bring the band mix in, sans guitar, via the mic input, and put that on it's own path, ALSO going to the 1/4" outs, so, I get the band in mono, and my guitar in stereo, in my ears.

That’s a cool idea.

I typically have the band in stereo as well which is mostly what I was referring to being better (although I totally agree the guitar sounds better in ears with some stereo stuff happening). When the band mix is in stereo you can pan things around subtly (or not so subtly) which helps separate the sounds and get a good mix where you can hear everything well and really get a similar vibe to playing on a live stage. With mono IEM mixes, I tended to put very little of the band in my ears, as little as possible, to keep things from getting muddy. Stereo mixes seem to work better for me for actually putting the full band in the monitor mix.

D

 

[DrewJD82]

My initial idea for my live rig was to set up my FM9 to go stereo onstage into guitar cabs while sending a mono DI to FOH. After seeing the cover band’s PA and knowing how they generally run it, I’m just going mono. 9x out of 10 I’ll be mic’ing a cab, the PA will always be mono, every venue we’ll be playing runs a mono PA and it’s just not worth that much hassle to run stereo onstage. There’s not nearly enough songs we’re doing where I could use stereo effects to make it even worth it.

 

[MadMaxG79]

Yep, they are. I’m not deep into that side of things, I just know that it works.

I get the hesitation that a lot have with stereo rigs, but they’re super useful for IEM rigs. Stereo IEM mixes are pretty superior to mono ones IME, especially anytime the band is more than let’s say 4 pieces. Much easier to get a good mix and be able to get in a good groove as a band with IEMs with a stereo monitor mix. I thought this was BS, overlly fussy, and not worth the hassle, but I’ve been converted it really is a lot better.

D

I totally get it. My band rehearses with headphones with everything running through a Zoom LiveTrack L20 mixer. Each have our own mix and it's glorious. Done it this way since the old JamHub came out.

I was just asking because I'd really like to go wireless instead of being tethered to a headphone cable running down from the guitar.

 

[dk_ace]

I totally get it. My band rehearses with headphones with everything running through a Zoom LiveTrack L20 mixer. Each have our own mix and it's glorious. Done it this way since the old JamHub came out.

I was just asking because I'd really like to go wireless instead of being tethered to a headphone cable running down from the guitar.

Wireless IEMs aren’t worth the hassle IMO unless you’re also running a wireless guitar rig. Static, dropouts, batteries, etc - If I’m using a guitar cable, I’d prefer to just have a cabled monitor mix. This makes sense to me, but it seems like most of the others I play with prefer the wireless setups, so I’m probably just weird. My preferences don’t actually matter, usually I don’t have a choice its just whatever the gig is running.

D

 

[quadgear]

Wireless IEMs aren’t worth the hassle IMO unless you’re also running a wireless guitar rig.

Tend to agee, but one cable is a bit easier to manage than two (even if they are snaked)

With two wireless you are likely getting close to ~6ms latency which means all you other latency can be much more than 5 ms. Non-digital players will have no worries.

 

[MadMaxG79]

Wireless IEMs aren’t worth the hassle IMO unless you’re also running a wireless guitar rig. Static, dropouts, batteries, etc - If I’m using a guitar cable, I’d prefer to just have a cabled monitor mix. This makes sense to me, but it seems like most of the others I play with prefer the wireless setups, so I’m probably just weird. My preferences don’t actually matter, usually I don’t have a choice its just whatever the gig is running.

D

Tend to agee, but one cable is a bit easier to manage than two (even if they are snaked)

With two wireless you are likely getting close to ~6ms latency which means all you other latency can be much more than 5 ms. Non-digital players will have no worries.

Makes sense. Lately I've been running the Ernie Ball Combo Cable with success. It's basically just a pre-built cable snake but I like the quality of both included cables and the ease of setup when I get to rehearsals.

Headphone Cables

The Ernie Ball Combo Cable is an all-in-one solution for musicians using headphones or in-ear monitors. This cable works great on stage using in-ear monitors as well as at home practicing or recording with headphones.

www.ernieball.com

 

[ragingplatypi]

Wireless IEMs aren’t worth the hassle IMO unless you’re also running a wireless guitar rig. Static, dropouts, batteries, etc - If I’m using a guitar cable, I’d prefer to just have a cabled monitor mix. This makes sense to me, but it seems like most of the others I play with prefer the wireless setups, so I’m probably just weird. My preferences don’t actually matter, usually I don’t have a choice its just whatever the gig is running.

D

I agree- tho I have to admit I have walked away from the stage forgetting to unplug my IEMs more than once.