Started guitar lessons on Thursday …

HomespunEffects

HomespunEffects

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I’m a basic old school metal player. Ratt, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Celtic Frost type of stuff. Play power chords and bar chords all around.

Now I’m playing seventh chords with more interesting voicings and man, my hands are sore from these odd stretches. 😂

I’ve been playing for 40 years or so and never heard that leaving out the root if its above the 7th keeps the chord from getting ugly. Makes sense, I think.
 
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HomespunEffects said:
I’m a basic old school metal player. Ratt, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Celtic Frost type of stuff. Play power chords and bar chords all around.

Now I’m playing seventh chords with more interesting voicings and man, my hands are sore from these odd stretches. 😂

I’ve been playing for 40 years or so and never heard that leaving out the root if its above the 7th keeps the chord from getting ugly. Makes sense, I think.
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Way to go! One should be commended for making earnest effort towards improvement. Those aches will go away, I can appreciate your pain.

I too am making a transition to expand my harmonic and melodic vocabulary. I am focusing on nailing transitions between those more difficult fingerings. It is difficult work, and hard going, but I feel it will be worth it in time.

So, you aren't alone, and don't give up!🤘

As with metal ... metronome is your tool of choice.
 
HomespunEffects said:
Help! I played “jazz chords”. Call an ambulance!
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Honestly, I have played odd voicings my whole playing life, could never really do just power chords all the time. And first position gets old ...so I learned my own inversions and such ...and more modern metal required a much deeper toolbox....but now I can't quite pick as fast and accurate as I once could due to tendinitis.... thus the pivot.
 
HomespunEffects said:
I’m a basic old school metal player. Ratt, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Celtic Frost type of stuff. Play power chords and bar chords all around.

Now I’m playing seventh chords with more interesting voicings and man, my hands are sore from these odd stretches. 😂

I’ve been playing for 40 years or so and never heard that leaving out the root if its above the 7th keeps the chord from getting ugly. Makes sense, I think.
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Haha!

When I took Jazz Band in college, I didn't know the first thing about being a "jazz guitarist" in a full band, and I didn't know common jazz chord shapes either. But I knew the notes that were in a 13b5 chord, or a 6/9 chord, or whatever it was, that I'd never seen before.

But I was trying to cover ALL the notes in those chords!! :facepalm

So at one point the band director stops us, and asks me what chord I'm playing..., "No, show it to me!" He laughs, and says, "Look around you. See that bass player, and the piano player, and these horns? They cover some of those notes, and you don't need to get them all."

Ok. I was like, "Well how do I know which notes to drop?" :idk

I still don't know! :rofl

But I did go buy that chord book. You guys know- the one with the bearded dude on the cover...?
 
TSJMajesty said:
Haha!

When I took Jazz Band in college, I didn't know the first thing about being a "jazz guitarist" in a full band, and I didn't know common jazz chord shapes either. But I knew the notes that were in a 13b5 chord, or a 6/9 chord, or whatever it was, that I'd never seen before.

But I was trying to cover ALL the notes in those chords!! :facepalm

So at one point the band director stops us, and asks me what chord I'm playing..., "No, show it to me!" He laughs, and says, "Look around you. See that bass player, and the piano player, and these horns? They cover some of those notes, and you don't need to get them all."

Ok. I was like, "Well how do I know which notes to drop?" :idk

I still don't know! :rofl

But I did go buy that chord book. You guys know- the one with the bearded dude on the cover...?
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Bare minimum 3 and 7 when the bassist covers the root.
Then add upper extensions.

First one that gets dropped is always the 5th.
 
Ed DeGenaro said:
Bare minimum 3 and 7 when the bassist covers the root.
Then add upper extensions.

First one that gets dropped is always the 5th.
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A little addon: When the chord is major, you can often leave out the 3rd, too.
A perfectly legit A7/9:
- x -
- 5 -
- 4 -
- 5 -
- x -
-(5)-

------------------

Apart from that, there's some note replacement "rules" that apply to piano, big band and - well - guitar chords. Possibly the most relevant being:
- 2 for 3 (sus2)
- 4 for 3 (sus4) (not exactly relevant here as it changes the fundamental character of the chord)
- 6 for 7 and sometimes 6 for 5 (in a three voice setting). C6 could be both C-E-A and C-E-G-A
- 7 for 1 (important in case you start with triads rather than with 7th chords)
- 7 for 5 (same thing, not as common, still useful)
- 9 for 1
- 11 for 5
- 13 for 5

These are mainly it already. When you now learn the inversions of your 7th chords (ideal starting point would possibly be drop 2 voicings on the top 4 strings), you should be able to create pretty much any chord flawlessly (possibly with the exception of some diminished and augmented things, but even those can be made to fit with the above).

Example: 2nd inversion of a D7 in drop2 would go like (chord functions in brackets):

- 5 - (5)
- 3 - (1)
- 5 - (7)
- 4 - (3+)
- x -
- x -

D7/9 would then follow the "9 for 1" rule and hence look like:

- 5 - (5)
- 5 - (9)
- 5 - (7)
- 4 - (3+)
- x -
- x -

D7/9/13 would further follow the "13 for 5" rule and look like:

- 7 - (13)
- 5 - (9)
- 5 - (7)
- 4 - (3+)
- x -
- x -

And of course you could then as well turn this into a D7/b9/b13:

- 6 - (b13)
- 4 - (b9)
- 5 - (7)
- 4 - (3+)
- x -
- x -

It's getting even more interesting/relevant when you concentrate on three part chords generated out of plain triads - which I think is one of the most efficient and nicely working approaches to form chords on a guitar for a variety of reasons, but I won't go there for now.
 
HomespunEffects said:
I’m not familiar.
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HomespunEffects said:
Thanks. Should i get one? 😊

Aw, he’s beardless in the new version. Lame!!
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Based on your OP, yeah. Assuming the newer version book is the same (or better), when I was playing in jazz band, there wasn't a chord I needed that wasn't in that book somewhere. Lemme grab it, and I'll snap a few pics to give you an idea.
 
I haven't looked at this book in a long time. It's pretty damn comprehensive! 109 pages, go through all sorts of concepts (it's much more than simply a chord book)...,
Contents.jpg
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20240830_092635.jpg
 
Chord shapes in the book:
Maj
sus, sus2, M6, 7, 7#9, 9, add9, 6/9, 7/6, 13, 13b9

Min
m6, 7, 7b5, 9, 11, 7/11, add9, 6/9, 13/#11

Min/Maj7 & Min/Maj 9

Dom7th
7, 7b5, 7/6, 7/11, 7sus, 7/6sus, 9, 11, 13, 13b9, 13sus, 7/6/11, 11/13, dim, aug.

And many altered chords.

Iow, if you can't find it, or learn how to construct it, it doesn't exist. By far the most comprehensive chord book I've ever seen.

Oh, and on the chord shape pages, he does them in E and A, so you get 2 choices as which to transpose.
 
Re: Ted Greene, I don't think you'll learn chords well that way, especially not the basic "guts".
So, there's an Em11 chord in your sheet. Which one out of Mr. Greene's book are you choosing? And which note is the 11th anyway? And are you gonna play the 9th as well? And to which A7/b9 will it move to most elegantly?
This is not meant to dismiss Ted Greene by any means. Especially given the year it was written, it's an enormous attempt. But it's more like a kind of thesaurus for folks already pretty fluent with all the basics. Something to look through and say "oh, yeah, that might be an interesting choice for an Em11 that I haven't played before".
 
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