Open back headphone recommendations?

deadpool_25

deadpool_25

Roadie
Messages
538
Mostly for guitar through either plugins or a modeler, and also some music production type stuff.

I have some Sennheiser HD280 Pros and while they're decent, I'm thinking it's time for an upgrade. Any recommendations? Let's keep it under $500 because y'all can just get out of hand lol ($250 would be much better).

Also they don't have to be open back, I've just heard good things about that design in the past. /shrug
 
dbagchee said:
I’ve been thinking about open backs but can’t you hear the guitar strings while you are playing? I’ve realized lately that I appreciate not hearing the string acoustically in closed backs.
Click to expand...
Good point. Might be better for normal music production and not as great for playing guitar?
 
I used the HD280's for about a decade. When I upgraded, I went with the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250Hz (they were around $200 IIRC in about 2015)! In 2020 I found the AKG 712 Pro and picked them up for around $400 and they are my daily headgear. I still use the DT990's from time to time, but mostly for testing sounds through a different delivery system. The thing I like about the AKG 712's is they are quite a bit lighter and don't press in on my head with as much force. Both are great headphones and can be had in your price range. I have never tried the HD650 series but have heard nothing but good about them ;~))
 
I've liked the Sennheiser HD 490 Pro a lot. It's similar to the HD6XX/650, but more comfortable. It does leak a lot of sound so it's not a good headphone for tracking with mics.

My only complaint is that the included cable is pretty short. Fine for sitting at a desk, not great if you want to move around.

I do NOT recommend the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros for guitar use. They have so much high end that you need a lot of EQ correction to make them sound right. They made even watching YT videos sound harsh. They are super comfortable though, easily the most comfortable headphones I've ever had.
 
I've owned a pair if HD600's for a while and they never get any play - even with a Harman Curve applied I just find them really boring to listen with like sterile from a dynamics point of view with a lack of detail.
 
DLC86 said:
according to this ranking sennheiser hd 560s are the most accurate despite being cheaper
Click to expand...
I wouldn't read much into this. The DT990 Pro 250 Ohm that I own is listed as #8 on that list, and if you look at the kind of correction it needs, there's quite massive boosts in the low end and massive cuts in the highest frequencies to correct it. Maybe this calculates to some relatively small standard deviation, but out of all the headphones I own, the AutoEQ corrections are the most drastic.
 
Headphones are not something I would generally taken suggestions from other people on. The shape of our ears, size of our heads, what we find comfortable, what we like the sound of, what we find useful is so different person to person.

I would be wary of some headphones needing a good amp to get the most out of them (HD6xx, and presumably other Sennheisers in that range) sound pretty uninspiring with a regular interface headphone amp but with a decent amp sound WAY better. For instance the UCX II headphone amp is no slouch but the ADI amp is just a huge step up for a lot of headphones, you’d think you’re hearing a totally different pair. So many DAC’s offer DSP with EQ over the outputs that you can use correction curves on and that can be helpful too - some really good planar headphones sound incredible once they have some correction applied but without the curve can be kind of weird.

Every time a pair of headphones break I just buy a different brand and model so I can try them that way. Honestly, I don’t love any pair of headphones but I certainly dislike some more than others. Just try as many as you can and ideally spend some time with them.
 
I have a pair of the DT1990 pros, among others. They are the most comfortable phones I've ever used by far. I've heard the other 990s are super bright, but the 1990s are just about right imo. The high end is very detailed and airy, not harsh. I've grown to trust them.
But I do agree with @MirrorProfiles , it's a bit of trial and error to some degree and everyone hears differently. But no matter what you get your ears will adapt. A good headphone amp goes a looonnnggg way too. I use a R. Neve RNHP which leaves space around the notes in a way that most built-in headphone amps just don't do. Best I can describe, it's almost like going from 2D to 3D with sound.
 
A few years back I compared the headphone amp of the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd Gen, the Fractal Axe-Fx 3 and an old Marantz stereo receiver. The Fractal and Marantz were pretty much the same, and the only thing I noticed was that they were capable of way higher volumes with 250 and 300 Ohm headphones. Soundwise they were the same to my ears.

But headphone outs on audio interfaces can be quite varied so not all of them perform well.
 
Longer answer...

On Sennheiser open backs:

Sennheiser HD600's are generally thought of as one of the best reference headphones. They are indeed pretty flat, with a little bit of rolled off deep bass, a little bit of rolled off high treble, and a tiny bit forward in the vocal midrange. They work well with just about any type of music but can be a bit boring, which is generally what you want from a studio reference perspective.

The HD6xx from Drop are a color variation on the HD650, which is a very slightly tweaked version of the HD600 with a hair more low end and a hair less treble. Sonically they are really close but the 6xx sells for $220 (sometimes less on sale) where the 600/650 sells for $350. I have both and for most people they are just close enough to not care about the difference.

One thing with these Sennheiser headphones is that the ear pads will wear down and after a couple years they will be more physically compressed and soft. This puts the ears closer to the drivers making them sound louder and more bassy with less detail. You can get replacement pads for about $55 last I checked, and IMO it's worth replacing at least every 2-3 years if you use them quite a bit.

IMO I wouldn't bother with the slightly cheaper Sennheisers. The HD58x are decent but lacking in clarity, and the HD560 are also decent but a little too bright. I'd just trust the industry standard.

On Beyerdynamic headphones:

Beyerdynamic headphones are super comfortable and well built but really hyped in the high end because they have a huge spike in the treble, and are kind of scooped out in the midrange. They would be really good for editing if you need to hear lots of detail, but I would skip them for guitar. You want more mids, not less, and you want flat treble, not hyped.

On high impedance headphones and headphone amps:

Regarding the high impedance and need for a headphone amp, I have not found that it is necessary with these 300 ohm headphones. My MOTU interface does need to be cranked up to about 60% volume but that's mostly because I don't have the input levels from the modeler super hot. If I plug directly into my Fractal or QC, there's plenty of volume at 20-30%. Some devices do have weaker headphone amps like the HX Stomp, but even then there's plenty of volume by 60%, and I've found no additional noise turning up that high.

I did also pick up an external headphone amp (Schiit Magni or something like that), and I didn't find it to be much different than the interface alone. It's possible if you're looking for a pleasantly colored sound that a headphone amp may be a good investment. Maybe I'll hook mine up again just to test it more.

On open back vs closed back:

Obviously if you are tracking with a microphone, closed back would be recommended. Sound will leak out of open back headphones which could get picked up by sensitive mics, and you may have to turn them up louder to hear the source as they will let more noise in. I think it's good to have at least one decent pair of closed back headphones for this purpose.

For general playing, to me the room was a big factor. In my old house, I was in a small room with plenty of carpet and furniture, so there wasn't a lot of echo and open back headphones worked really well. Then I moved into a big room with tall ceilings, lots of windows, and hardwood floors and the guitar strings and other noise leaked in a lot more, so I used closed backs more.Now I'm in another smaller room and the open backs again work better here.

Sonically, closed backs tend to have more bass and a more uneven frequency response. I've tried a ton of them, and generally you have to pick some kind of flaws and live with them. Audio Technica M50's, Beyer DT-770's, and Sennheiser HD280's are all really common. I like the Audio Technica M40X as they have prominent midrange (even though the bass/treble are a bit hyped). The 770's have a big treble spike and scooped midrange. Sennheisers I haven't tried the HD280's but had the HD300's and found them to be really uncomfortable.

TL / DR:

I would get a pair of Sennheiser HD6xx open backs from Drop for $220 or less, and a pair of Audio Technica M40X closed backs which are $100 all day long. You'll have some really good reference style headphones and some rugged tracking headphones.
 
Jarick said:
Longer answer...

On Sennheiser open backs:

Sennheiser HD600's are generally thought of as one of the best reference headphones. They are indeed pretty flat, with a little bit of rolled off deep bass, a little bit of rolled off high treble, and a tiny bit forward in the vocal midrange. They work well with just about any type of music but can be a bit boring, which is generally what you want from a studio reference perspective.

The HD6xx from Drop are a color variation on the HD650, which is a very slightly tweaked version of the HD600 with a hair more low end and a hair less treble. Sonically they are really close but the 6xx sells for $220 (sometimes less on sale) where the 600/650 sells for $350. I have both and for most people they are just close enough to not care about the difference.

One thing with these Sennheiser headphones is that the ear pads will wear down and after a couple years they will be more physically compressed and soft. This puts the ears closer to the drivers making them sound louder and more bassy with less detail. You can get replacement pads for about $55 last I checked, and IMO it's worth replacing at least every 2-3 years if you use them quite a bit.

IMO I wouldn't bother with the slightly cheaper Sennheisers. The HD58x are decent but lacking in clarity, and the HD560 are also decent but a little too bright. I'd just trust the industry standard.

On Beyerdynamic headphones:

Beyerdynamic headphones are super comfortable and well built but really hyped in the high end because they have a huge spike in the treble, and are kind of scooped out in the midrange. They would be really good for editing if you need to hear lots of detail, but I would skip them for guitar. You want more mids, not less, and you want flat treble, not hyped.

On high impedance headphones and headphone amps:

Regarding the high impedance and need for a headphone amp, I have not found that it is necessary with these 300 ohm headphones. My MOTU interface does need to be cranked up to about 60% volume but that's mostly because I don't have the input levels from the modeler super hot. If I plug directly into my Fractal or QC, there's plenty of volume at 20-30%. Some devices do have weaker headphone amps like the HX Stomp, but even then there's plenty of volume by 60%, and I've found no additional noise turning up that high.

I did also pick up an external headphone amp (Schiit Magni or something like that), and I didn't find it to be much different than the interface alone. It's possible if you're looking for a pleasantly colored sound that a headphone amp may be a good investment. Maybe I'll hook mine up again just to test it more.

On open back vs closed back:

Obviously if you are tracking with a microphone, closed back would be recommended. Sound will leak out of open back headphones which could get picked up by sensitive mics, and you may have to turn them up louder to hear the source as they will let more noise in. I think it's good to have at least one decent pair of closed back headphones for this purpose.

For general playing, to me the room was a big factor. In my old house, I was in a small room with plenty of carpet and furniture, so there wasn't a lot of echo and open back headphones worked really well. Then I moved into a big room with tall ceilings, lots of windows, and hardwood floors and the guitar strings and other noise leaked in a lot more, so I used closed backs more.Now I'm in another smaller room and the open backs again work better here.

Sonically, closed backs tend to have more bass and a more uneven frequency response. I've tried a ton of them, and generally you have to pick some kind of flaws and live with them. Audio Technica M50's, Beyer DT-770's, and Sennheiser HD280's are all really common. I like the Audio Technica M40X as they have prominent midrange (even though the bass/treble are a bit hyped). The 770's have a big treble spike and scooped midrange. Sennheisers I haven't tried the HD280's but had the HD300's and found them to be really uncomfortable.

TL / DR:

I would get a pair of Sennheiser HD6xx open backs from Drop for $220 or less, and a pair of Audio Technica M40X closed backs which are $100 all day long. You'll have some really good reference style headphones and some rugged tracking headphones.
Click to expand...
everything
 
I have both the HD 600 and the HD 6XX and like the HD 600 a tiny bit better.

I also have DT 770 Pros which I keep around for vocal tracking and had DT 1990 Pros. Both are unusable for distorted guitar IMHO because the squirrel-bees will tunnel into your head and build their nest inside your skull, i.e. unpleasant treble.

TL;DR: another +1 to what @Jarick said.
 
What I use for precision mixing / EQing. I was looking for a "flat" EQ curve and balanced sound; no hyping the lows or highs.

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ATH-R70x

Robust yet lightweight, and equipped with a unique, dual-sided detachable cable that automatically maintains proper stereo orientation (no matter how it’s attached), the R70x headphones are ...
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ATH-R70x open-back reference headphone

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Audio Technica ATH-R70x Review: A Gateway to Soundstage

Facing off against fierce competition from the HD600 and Sundara, the ATH-R70x holds its ground with a relaxing tonality and excellent soundstage performance.
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Audio-Technica ATH-R70x Studio Headphone Review - Sonarworks Blog

Audio Technica ATH-R70x studio open-back headphone review. Out of the box performance -comfort, build, sound with and without calibration, and overall value
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www.head-fi.org

Audio-Technica ATH-R70x - In-Depth Review & Impressions

Many thanks to Audio-Technica Singapore for the demo set loan of ATH-R70x! By the time i post this review, i have had it with me for more than a month. http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/f39784ce643a82e6/index.html Sections: Summary & Highlights Sound Quality...
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ATH-R70x has a very smooth, polite, and balanced sound signature. Tonality sounds natural and very pleasing without any annoying peaks or dips on the frequency spectrum. Sometime may sound a little too smooth, depending on recording. Tonality leans a little, to the warm side, just a little, not as warm as HD650. Bass and mids are balanced, with good bass presence & low bass extension, but it doesn't sound bassy. It has more bass than Beyerdynamic T1, but less bass than Philips Fidelio X1. Treble is only a tad softer than the midrange, but not lacking and overall still quite balance. I do prefer to hear a little more clarity, especially for my music. If HD800 brightness is North Pole, and HD650 warmness is South Pole, ATH-R70x tonality is probably Australia. ATH-R70x is not for basshead, and also not for those looking for HD800 or T1 transparency, but an excellent choice for those looking for natural and balanced sounding headphone for long period of music listening. ATH-R70x is especially good on vocal. Vocal sounds smooth, natural, and full bodied.

Detail and resolution are good, slightly better than HD650, but not yet at the level of HD800 or T1. ATH-R70x is rather a little forgiving when it comes to revealing detail, especially when compared to HD800 and T1. Dynamic is pretty good, but a little hard to drive. With 470 ohms impedance ATH-R70x need a good amplifier to sound lively. When compared to T1 & HD800, ATH-R70x is not as fast sounding as those flagships, and not the best choice for extremely fast pace & complex music. But regular pace music, pop and jazz, sounds gorgeous on ATH-R70x. I definitely enjoy vocal on ATH-R70x better than HD800 and T1. For example, ATH-R70x is my favourite headphone for albums from Stockfisch Records. ATH-R70x does classical as well, but performs better with small orchestra and chamber music. As an open-back headphone, ATH-R70x imaging size is around average, not very spacious, but also not congested. Imaging is accurate, but not as big and spacious as HD800.

I have burnt-in ATH-R70x for about 100 hours, no changes in sound quality. So, no burn-in is required for ATH-R70x, which is a good thing. Headphone that changes it sound after burn-in, to me is indicating inconsistency. As with DAC and amplifier, I didn't find ATH-R70x to have good chemistry with tube amp or warm & smooth sounding amp, and matches better with neutral to slightly analytic solid state amplifiers. With my ifi micro iDSD + iCAN, ATH-R70x is simply music. At 210 grams, ATH-R70x is feather-light and very comfortable. Headband pressure is pretty light, less pressure than T1, about the same as HD800. ATH-R70x fits really well on my head, always stays in place.

Some factors of ATH-R70x that in my opinion make it suitable for professional applications:
1. Very balanced, almost ruler flat tonality, makes ATH-R70x very useful for tonality observation & equalizer adjustment.
2. Light weight and comfortable for long sessions. Headband pressure is light, but it fits very well, and not easily moved from position even with lots of head movement.

I gave 5 stars for ATH-R70x, is that mean that ATH-R70x a perfect headphone? There is no such a thing as a perfect headphone. 5 stars are mainly for its performance, in comparison with other headphones within the price bracket that I've ever tried. Best achievements of ATH-R70x are the very natural tonality, almost ruler flat tonal balance, and the light weight and good fit of the headphones. ATH-R70x is probably not the one headphone that fits all music, but it really excels on what it does best, which are vocal, pop, and jazz. Generally modern recordings with closed miking sound wonderful on ATH-R70x. What I think can be improved further to match other open-back flagships mentioned above are the clarity, detail, speed and dynamic. Overall ATH-R70x is a very pleasing & comfortable headphone. Some headphone may sound technically right, but not necessarily emotionally involving. Not with ATH-R70x. With the right DAC and amplifier, ATH-R70x sounds gorgeous and emotionally involving. For under $500 bracket, in my opinion, ATH-R70x deserves 5 stars. An excellent sounding headphone for both professionals and audiophiles. Kudos to Audio-Technica!
Click to expand...



ath-r70x_01.png
 
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