Need Advice on Possible Changes to my Rig

[Genghis]

I think most of us hang out on forums like this because we are always meticulously chasing the best tone, feel, and workflow advantages of our rigs. I'm thinking of changing up the recording part of my setup, which is based around a few tube amps along with the Axe-FX III in 4-cable mode. It is fine as it is, and I put things like drives, compressors, wah, and a few other things before the amps preamp, and time based effects in the loop. Live I just take the Axe-FX as I have it in a rack with my QSC board, and I'm old and like to minimize setup time and gear hauling. It also allows a bit more flexibility for the range of cover songs we do live.

My setup currently is a Mesa IIC+ DRGX, a JP2C, and an EVH EL34 50w and I have a KHE head switcher on the way so that I can more easily decide which of these to use without recabling as much. Also taking a chance on a Crab Dragon amp that I'm hoping gets here within a couple of months. I run these into two cabs, a Mather V30 4x12 slant, and an EVH 4x12 with that version of greenback type speaker. I love the blend of these two cabs with all of these amps, and I'm stoked that I have a place to record that allows me to crank it a bit.

I figure for my recording setup, I can either keep it as is, or make one of these two changes or just keep it as is (and not spend any more money - Hahaha, made me laugh just typing this):

1. Replace the effects that go in front of the amp with analog pedals and get a decent power supply. I have a few pedals now for my non-studio practice setup, including a couple of decent wahs, and a couple of drives and modulation and delay pedals. I would basically want to add a couple of more drives and a decent power supply first, and then maybe add in a few other odd effects for the front of the amp. In the first option I would still use the Axe-FX III for time based effects.

2. Same as number one, but skip the Axe-FX all together and add in any time based effects in the DAW. (This one kind of appeals to me, as I can always add delay or other effects in my UAD console for monitoring while I record.)

Part of the reason I am pondering this, is I hear people talking about multiple digital conversions, latency and what not. I like the sound I have and don't really notice any significant latency in the rig, but it got me curious if things really could be significantly better. (Grass is always greener...)

Just curious what comments you guys may have and if I do make these changes, what power supplies would be best for the pedals in front of the amp?

 

[Shredder777]

Part of the reason I am pondering this, is I hear people talking about multiple digital conversions, latency and what not. I like the sound I have and don't really notice any significant latency in the rig, but it got me curious if things really could be significantly better. (Grass is always greener...)

I'm one of the people talking about latency. If you don't feel it, don't worry about it.

I have noticed that when I'm doing 4cm with my Boss processor I don't feel it (< 2ms) and when I'm using 4cm with my Zoom I do feel it (~4ms?)

Its most noticeable when there is a loose meter so if I'm playing a phrase that isn't in strict time, I start to feel a dragging sensation when I adjust picking speed. And that explosiveness when you strum a power chord after muting is a little bit duller.

I don't think you can improve on your gear any, but latency could be a way to get more immediate feel. You could also experiment with boutique input buffers. I believe the latency of the Fractal FX3 is around 2ms per loop so if using in 4cm you might feel a little drag. But you can fix that by just using one round of conversion and using analog pedals in front. Good luck.

 

[Genghis]

I'm one of the people talking about latency. If you don't feel it, don't worry about it.

I have noticed that when I'm doing 4cm with my Boss processor I don't feel it (< 2ms) and when I'm using 4cm with my Zoom I do feel it (~4ms?)

Its most noticeable when there is a loose meter so if I'm playing a phrase that isn't in strict time, I start to feel a dragging sensation when I adjust picking speed. And that explosiveness when you strum a power chord after muting is a little bit duller.

I don't think you can improve on your gear any, but latency could be a way to get more immediate feel. You could also experiment with boutique input buffers. I believe the latency of the Fractal FX3 is around 2ms per loop so if using in 4cm you might feel a little drag. But you can fix that by just using one round of conversion and using analog pedals in front. Good luck.

That was my thinking. I’ll hook up a couple pedals and skip the input loop and see if I notice a difference. I think I adapt well to those slight changes in feel, so simply might not be an issue for me. Thanks!

 

[la szum]

Latency is the enemy of digital, and digital/analog hybrid rigs!!!

 

[GuitarBilly74]

I agree with your plan #2, but it has nothing to do with latency.
I like to record guitars bone dry and add effects in post.That way you can add/change effects later. If you later realize the effect was too much or the type of effect is not working within the context of the overall mix, if it's imprinted in the track there's nothing you can do and you will have to record the part again, whereas if you have in buss in your DAW you have complete control throughout the whole process.

So I'd just have a small board with the analog pedals you need (boosts, etc) going into your amps and add everything else directly in the DAW.

 

[Eagle]

Get analog in front and put your Axe3 in a mixer to get analog dry through and you will feel the difference.

 

[aivoryuk]

I'm in a similar position - I was purely Fractal FM3 and then got into the Synergy World. I tried the 4CM but just too much noise so I started to acquire a couple of analog pedals fro the front on the Synergy but then using the Fractal for IR processing and post effects.

For Christmas I acquired a Boss-IR200 for the same price as an IR-2 so was interested to see what the longer IR processing/higher sample rate as well as the USB recording interface and headphone output was like.

From the limited time I've had it I would say it is quite a good utility device. The difference in IR processing (longer/higher rate) is subtle. The latency of the Boss is noticeable and surprisingly it works really well as a USB device. When I did a loopback to check for DAW recording offset it measured -0.3ms which by far the best I have experienced (the Fractal FM3 is awful for this) even against some of my dedicated audio interfaces so Boss seem to know what they are doing in terms of latency and drivers.

The headphone is ok not a good as the fractal and of course the modelling is not near the fractal but I'm not using that part of it.

But it did get me thinking about using my DAW for Post effects rather than the Fractal. If I use the fractal the loop of the Boss then the Latency does become noticeable.

 

[Genghis]

I received the KHE head switcher and love it. One thing I didn’t know is that it allows you to bypass the effects loop, so that is handy to shut it off for recording and turn it on for rehearsals.

I may try a few analog pedals in front. These days I’m using amp distortion for most of my sounds, but I have a couple of things to try in front of the amp.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

 

[Whizzinby]

I’m not a fan of 4CM with any modeler or multi-fx with amps. Analog drives/pedals into the front of an amp, AxeFx/VP4/digital fx and/or plugin effects after.