My rewiring project

[Eagle]

Cool. Thanks for the recommendation. I'm not going for a traditional tone cap at all with this; instead I'm going for four volume knobs essentially, with the trimpots acting as fixed value knob settings acting as "presets," if you will, for the different tones. It will be five tones from the pickup selector, with a bright and dark setting from the push pull pots for each, so ten tones total, each with it's own resonant peak tuning set with the caps and trimpots, with Strat tones including audio signal transformers acting as inductors for a passive mid cut, which, from what I understand, will also shift the resonant peak.

I have never considered the voltage handling of a cap; I totally assumed it wouldn't matter in a passive circuit. I don't have any electronics background though, so I'm just learning what I can as I go along.

This is very cool to learn; I'll read more about this to try to find out why this is the case. Maybe modeling it in LTspice would reveal what's going on with a high voltage cap in a passive circuit. Maybe the energy it takes to maintain the transmission of higher frequencies dissipates less in a high voltage cap.

It never occurred to me either but a friend of mine tested a whole bunch of caps , materials and voltage and we listened back to the clips . The big voltage version in all materials was more balanced as you turned it down. Then you can get in to materials for improvements in the same area. I liked wax paper on a Strat and pio for humbuckers but orange drops were a close second.

These are my favourite in a Strat.

 

[Shredder777]

I'm about to rewire my Schecter Sun Valley Super Shredder FR Exotic Black Limba. This involves:

Switching the pickups to Saphue Invader knockoffs, which should help me knock of the terrible pick attack I get from the stock pickups.
Shielding the cavity, pickguard, output jack, and the new pickups themselves. I just completed this part.
Installing two Bourns PDB183-GTR dual gang push pull pots.
Installing a 4-pole 5-way.
Installing a couple of Audio Signal Transformers to use as part of separate LCR networks for use as passive mid cut inductors.
Here's the diagram I've created. I've written in detail the logic of everything I'm planning in the notes on the diagram itself:

View attachment 35351
With my new pickups, I first wax potted them, then I wrapped copper tape around the outside cloth of each humbucker, creating a small gap, and I attached a wire to ground the shield. I then wrapped cloth tape around that shield to regain the standard uncovered humbucker look.

Here's the guitar as it is right now:

View attachment 35352

Terrible pick attack is solved with a thicker, smoother pick.

 

[State of Epicicity]

It never occurred to me either but a friend of mine tested a whole bunch of caps , materials and voltage and we listened back to the clips . The big voltage version in all materials was more balanced as you turned it down. Then you can get in to materials for improvements in the same area. I liked wax paper on a Strat and pio for humbuckers but orange drops were a close second.
View attachment 35560
These are my favourite in a Strat.

This is a whole world I need to explore. I've read mostly that it didn't make a difference, so I didn't try, but maybe I was wrong. Thanks!

 

[State of Epicicity]

Terrible pick attack is solved with a thicker, smoother pick.

Not with this guitar. I have a pick collection that is really extensive. I tried major model and shape from every major brand, and I got very different tones, but nothing that solved the attack. Someone suggested it might be my wenge neck combined with stainless steel frets, that both brighten any guitar. On top of that, this has a Floyd, which can brighten your tone anyway.

 

[State of Epicicity]

Knee deep in testing. Yesterday I found a perfect balance for a bright Les Paul bridge tone, something that isn't harsh no matter what kind of IRI play through. It was truly great. Now I'm focusing on the warm LP bridge tone I'd like to achieve. The values of cap I'm using are way higher than recommended by the person who did all the modeling on Guitar Nuts 2, but it's working!

Here's where I landed for the bright LP bridge:

3.3nF||270pF||193K

The unusual 193K value was found by turning a 1M trimpot, using it as a variable resistor instead of a voltage divider, that is, I'm using just lugs 2 and 3, where lug 3 receives the hot lead from the pickup, lug 2 goes to ground, and lug 1 is floating.

I'm finding it a little more difficult to hone the warm LP, because you can easily get too warm.

This is really interesting, because I find that with this guitar I tame the harshness in the lower and mid note ranges by raising the cap value higher and higher, but I then tame really high notes with the trimpot. This is a fun adventure, and empowering.

Here's a shot of where I ended last night:

 

[State of Epicicity]

And here's a shot of what I had to do to organize this new pack of caps I bought recently. These all came in a small box, completely unorganized:

 

[Eagle]

Try a few 200v ones too.

 

[State of Epicicity]

Try a few 200v ones too.

Yes! Thanks for the reminder. I meant to shop for a pack, but I had forgotten.

 

[State of Epicicity]

@Eagle, I'm wondering if higher voltage handling is better regardless of the material. I found these, which, although they're ceramic, have even higher capacity.

 

[Eagle]

The physical size seems to make a difference. I can’t tell you why.

 

[State of Epicicity]

The physical size seems to make a difference. I can’t tell you why.

That's what she said.

 

[State of Epicicity]

Okay, I'm looking for a kit that has a higher voltage capacity, at least 200V, is larger in size, but has smaller cap values, and that last part is tough. When you find the physically big ones, they're usually in the uF range, way bigger than what you'd use for this application. The highest I can see going is maybe around 7nF, and I'm still testing to see if that a little to high. I do see some small sets with just like one value, what you'd use for just a tone cap, but for this application, for resonant peak shifting, I need a wide array of values to work with. I'll look some more.

 

[State of Epicicity]

Okay, I have my Les Paul bridge bright and warm component values, so I've updated by wiring diagram. Instead of the resistors shown, I'll be using trimpots for the 193K and 585K values. I'm going to take a break from testing values now and wire in these two resonant peak shift RC component sets. Once those are set, I'll start testing the treble bleed they'll share. That should be easier, and fun as hell!

To test for the LP bridge values, I loaded the jumped SLP in the Axe-FX III, then I ran it through all sorts of different factory IRs, matching manually the speaker impedance curve to the IR sets. I made sure the pickup with the peak shifts didn't sound harsh through any of the IRs. This was a great test for me, because I've always had trouble with these IRs, although I knew other people got them to sound good. Now I do too. This doesn't mean I'm going to be using just single mic IRs for my tones; it just means they're now usuable. I still like out of phase mic mixes best, where you EQ the tone with the position of the mics, especially their alignment. I usually use two or three mics.

 

[JasonE]

That is a lot of wire. :)

 

[State of Epicicity]

That is a lot of wire. :)

Haha! I bought a spool, and it's inexpensive, so it was worth it to keep around for those times I have a weird idea I just have to implement.

 

[State of Epicicity]

I love the idea of breadboard based testing, but it's driving me nuts, and I want to switch tacks to testing inside the guitar. I don't know what it is, but I get just different sounding effects testing outside the guitar vs in it. I don't know if that's because the length of the wire outside the guitar plus the breadbaord changes things significantly enough for a passive circuit, like introducing additonal capacitance or resitance or something, but it's just not the same when installed. Plus, since of course, those components outside the guitar are not shielded, the noise is insane. So I have a new plan that should help my sanity. Luckily I have all the components on hand for this:

Wire a trimpot in place of the volume knob in order to load the pickup, testing to find one that matches as closely as possible the actual measured resistance of the pot I want to use, then just leave it loose in the control cavity but wrapped in electrical tape so as not to short out on the copper foil. If I need to, I can place a cap across lugs 1 and 3 of the trimpot to lower its overall resistance to get it to load the pickup just like the vol pot I intend to use. Next, wire two rotary knobs with caps in parallel going to the hidden volume knob, and use those to choose values. Once you have your values for the caps, wire them to the volume knob and mount it to the guitar. Now wire a second pot in parallel with the caps, and use that just as a variable resistor, meaning you don't wire lug 1 to ground; you leave it floating. Now you just dial in whatever resistance you want in order to tame the peak. Measure that with a multimeter and replace it with a trimpot for the final wiring.

When you've set that with one pickup with the trimpot volume knob fully wired, leave that in the guitar cavity and repeat the process with the other pickup. Do this until all positions of the pickup selector are taken care of, then, at the end, replace the trimpot volume knobs with actual volume knobs.

This leaves out the air variable capacitor, but it has the advantages of not being influenced by whatever is going on with the tone outside the faraday cage.

 

[Eagle]

I’ve yet to hear a tone circuit that I prefer over just a good cap in a 50s wiring with no treble blead.

 

[State of Epicicity]

I’ve yet to hear a tone circuit that I prefer over just a good cap in a 50s wiring with no treble blead.

That was my preference for the longest time, and it worked well for me when I was playing my fixed bridge guitars. The only unusual thing I did was to use low value caps.

This particular guitar just can't be cured by any pickup, from what I can tell. At least not enough for my ears. To me the humbuckers sound kind of high output filtertrons or something, just a tone I have no care for.

I really like what I've come up with so far though, and I like the testing method I'm going to switch to. To me it sounds natural and works to get me into that Les Paul territory, plus the wiring is simple. In my diagram I'm just putting together an amalgamation of ideas, so it's a mess, but it's totally what I'm going for.

A tone knob is just not necessary for me anymore, since I can now create any kind of treble bleed reaction I want.

My general rule for guitar wiring is, if it inspires you, it's right.

 

[Eagle]

That was my preference for the longest time, and it worked well for me when I was playing my fixed bridge guitars. The only unusual thing I did was to use low value caps.

This particular guitar just can't be cured by any pickup, from what I can tell. At least not enough for my ears. To me the humbuckers sound kind of high output filtertrons or something, just a tone I have no care for.

I really like what I've come up with so far though, and I like the testing method I'm going to switch to. To me it sounds natural and works to get me into that Les Paul territory, plus the wiring is simple. In my diagram I'm just putting together an amalgamation of ideas, so it's a mess, but it's totally what I'm going for.

A tone knob is just not necessary for me anymore, since I can now create any kind of treble bleed reaction I want.

My general rule for guitar wiring is, if it inspires you, it's right.

Totally agree. It’s all about what works for you..

 

[State of Epicicity]

I'm waylaid by another in a very long of house repair projects, but I thought of a better way to do this, using the pickup selector and one rotary knob to fine tune the resonant peak shift with course and fine tuned caps respectively, but at the same time use a regular pot to tame the Q:

1. Wire a trimpot in place of the volume knob in order to load the pickup, testing to find one that matches as closely as possible the actual measured resistance of the pot I want to use, then just leave it loose in the control cavity but wrapped in electrical tape so as not to short out on the copper foil. If I need to, I can place a cap across lugs 1 and 3 of the trimpot to lower its overall resistance to get it to load the pickup just like the vol pot I intend to use.
2. Wire the pickup selector with caps, like one would a rotary, in parallel with one of the pickups, in the nF range to pick a general range of where the resonant peak should shift.
3. Wire one rotary knob with caps in the pF range in parallel also to fine tune the shift.
4. Use the remaining knob hole to install a regular pot to use only as a variable resistor instead of a voltage divider (lug 1 is floating instead of going to ground) in parallel to the pickup also, to tame the Q of the new resonant peak.
5. When I've set that with one pickup with the trimpot volume knob fully wired, leave that in the guitar cavity and repeat the process with the other pickup. Do this until all positions of the pickup selector are taken care of, then, at the end, replace the trimpot volume knobs with actual volume knobs.