Leon's VH4 Video

GreatGreen said:
note that every well-known player who uses one blends it with other amps. Nobody plays them exclusively for a reason.
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So by extension ... whatever other amp they blend it with, is also a terrible sounding amp??? Because otherwise they'd just use that one amp alone right???

You guys and your foolish statements. *le sigh*
 
Orvillain said:
So by extension ... whatever other amp they blend it with, is also a terrible sounding amp??? Because otherwise they'd just use that one amp alone right???

You guys and your foolish statements. *le sigh*
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Not really. An amp doesn't have to sound bad for blending another amp to be an improvement. Maybe the VH4 fills out some of the frequencies Adam Jones' Marshalls or James Hetfield's Mesas don't do.

I suppose I've always thought of the VH4 like a subwoofer in a stereo system. When a sub is used with a great sounding pair of bookshelf speakers, it can improve the system overall, but listening to music with a subwoofer alone wouldn't make for a very good experience.


Orvillain said:


Plenty of high-end there. You just dialled it in wrong tbh.
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There are different kinds of high end. As that video shows, along with Leon Todd's video, and every other clip I've heard, and when I've played the amp personally, I hear an amp that does produce a lot of high frequency content, but that high-frequency content is mostly harmonics that come from the clipping of mids and lower-mid frequencies. I don't hear much treble content from the guitar itself at all, which is where detail and articulation comes from, because the amp seems to filter a lot of those frequencies away before the preamp gain stages.

You can take any guitar with a tone knob and turn that knob way down, and still get a ton of fizzy upper harmonics from most high gain amps if you turn the gain and presence high enough, but it won't be detailed or articulate information, it will just be fizz that's coming from what happens when you distort lower frequencies hard enough. That's kind of what the VH4 sounds like to me.

Then again what do I know? I'm just one guy with an opinion. If you're the kind of player who wants a raw, grindy, coarse-grained wall of sound, then VH4 is exactly that and you'll probably love it. And it's built like a tank, too.
 
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GreatGreen said:
Not really. An amp doesn't have to sound bad for blending another amp to be an improvement. Maybe the VH4 fills out some of the frequencies Adam Jones' Marshalls or James Hetfield's Mesas don't do.
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Your entire point seems to rest on the VH4 not producing frequencies you'd like. So why is it okay for you to say the VH4 is a bag of shit, but not the other amp being blended with it? I think my point is perfectly straight forward. If the Marshall only brings mids, why does that make it a good amp and the VH4 a shit one? I truly don't get it. I'm all for subjectivity and just sharing our opinions, but I'd still ideally like it to make sense!

GreatGreen said:
I suppose I've always thought of the VH4 like a subwoofer in a stereo system. When a sub is used with a great sounding pair of bookshelf speakers, it improve the system overall. But listening to music with a subwoofer alone wouldn't make for a very good experience.
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That's not really my take to be honest. The VH4 *is* the bookshelf speakers. Without knowing the intimate details of the Jones or Hetfield rig, you're not really able to say what each amp brings to the table, or why they stack.

I've blended the VH4 with my Marshall JVM a lot of the time too. But the main reason I do it is to get two complimentary tones and to get a unique overall texture. Nothing to do with thinking the VH4 is sub-par and that there are "holes" to be filled in.

GreatGreen said:
There are different kinds of high end. As that video shows, along with Leon Todd's video, and every other clip I've heard, and when I've played the amp personally, I hear an amp that does produce a lot of upper harmonics, yeah, but they're harmonics that come from the clipping of mids and lower-mid frequencies. I don't hear much detail or articulation from the guitar at all, because the amp seems to filter a lot of those frequencies away before the preamp gain stages.

You can take any guitar with a tone knob and turn that knob way down, and still get a ton of fizzy upper harmonics from most high gain amps if you turn the gain and presence high enough, but it won't be detailed or articulate information, it will just be fizz that's coming from what happens when you distort lower frequencies hard enough. That's kind of what the VH4 sounds like to me.
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Well I obviously don't agree. For me is a lifer amp, and I didn't know exactly what I was missing until I got one. I have plenty of amps, but the VH4 is one of my best.

I've heard the fizz comments about Dual Recto's in the past. And I myself owned a Rectoverb once upon a time, and HAAAATTTEEEDDDD it. So those comments and my Rectoverb experience put me off Dual Recto's for the longest time. But since so many of my favourite bands and guitarists have used them over the years, I took a punt, and was not disappointed at all. But it took me about 15 years until I was willing to risk it.

But even during those 15 years, I never said Recto's were shit.
 
Orvillain said:
Your entire point seems to rest on the VH4 not producing frequencies you'd like. So why is it okay for you to say the VH4 is a bag of shit, but not the other amp being blended with it? I think my point is perfectly straight forward. If the Marshall only brings mids, why does that make it a good amp and the VH4 a shit one? I truly don't get it. I'm all for subjectivity and just sharing our opinions, but I'd still ideally like it to make sense!
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I say that because I've played the other amps in question and I think they sound good by themselves, whereas I don't think the VH4 sounds good by itself.

Orvillain said:
That's not really my take to be honest. The VH4 *is* the bookshelf speakers. Without knowing the intimate details of the Jones or Hetfield rig, you're not really able to say what each amp brings to the table, or why they stack.
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I don't have to know the intimate details of Jones' or Hetfield's rigs. I've played Marshall Super Bass amps, and I've played basically every Mesa Mark amp including Triaxis rigs. I know what they sound like. They are all very "clear" sounding amps that can maintain a ton of player articulation and string detail even under lots of gain. The VH4 simply does not and cannot do that because of its design. So while I might not know specifically how the amps are blended in those guys' rigs, I can tell you the VH4 isn't the amp providing the clarity.

Orvillain said:
Well I obviously don't agree. For me is a lifer amp, and I didn't know exactly what I was missing until I got one. I have plenty of amps, but the VH4 is one of my best.

I've heard the fizz comments about Dual Recto's in the past. And I myself owned a Rectoverb once upon a time, and HAAAATTTEEEDDDD it. So those comments and my Rectoverb experience put me off Dual Recto's for the longest time. But since so many of my favourite bands and guitarists have used them over the years, I took a punt, and was not disappointed at all. But it took me about 15 years until I was willing to risk it.

But even during those 15 years, I never said Recto's were shit.
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I love that you've found it to be a lifer amp! Seriously, even if I don't like the VH4 personally, hearing that somebody found a rig they can definitively call one of their own core sounds always makes me happy, because it shows that it's possible for people to actually do that. Congrats, sincerely.
 
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I want to love Diezels but just can’t get on with them. I also find them too dark and boosting the treble or presence just makes them sound more weird and pinched.

There’s something about the gain I find a bit fuzzy/crunchy/compressed/soft that doesn’t really vibe with me either
 
MirrorProfiles said:
I want to love Diezels but just can’t get on with them. I also find them too dark and boosting the treble or presence just makes them sound more weird and pinched.

There’s something about the gain I find a bit fuzzy/crunchy/compressed/soft that doesn’t really vibe with me either
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I remember a custom builder saying they actually are one of the most compressed amps out there its just that they are very dry .

and the low end resonance I have to agree is very sub like kinda similar to an Uberschall.

The best sounding Diezel I played personally was the Einstein, CH1 mega mode and a boost in front , that had a ton of cut , but didn't have the same sub lows
 
I think what I like about the Diezel amps is they're hard-rock and metal amps... without obviously sounding like they were meant for that. They're huge bulldozer amps with tons of low end but plenty of clarity too. They're not smooth sounding and they're aggressive, without being a jack of all trades kind of thing. They're really unique, and once you learn how to dial them in, they just really give you something different that the typical crop of amps doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, I've got plenty of amps (and have gone through plenty too!) ... Rockerverb MKIII, Dual Recto, VH100R, JVMJS, Hagen, D-Moll, and VH4.... I love them all tbh!

GIB ME MOAR ARMPS!
 
Orvillain said:
So by extension ... whatever other amp they blend it with, is also a terrible sounding amp??? Because otherwise they'd just use that one amp alone right???

You guys and your foolish statements. *le sigh*
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I don't think it's foolish as much as you are being adversely triggered by Adam Jones's Live Rig. :LOL:
 
Matt Bellamy from Muse has made damn foolish statements with his live rig for a decade plus now, too. Idiot! :LOL:

Love ya, Orv. :beer
 
You know how a good Marshall makes you want to play open chords that vaguely sound like AC/DC songs? The VH4 makes you do that with drop tuned power chords. It may not be reinventing the wheel when it comes to high gain, but it's voiced just right for hard rock and metal, and it encourages you to work that little bit harder when you're playing to get the most out of it. I definitely get why some people love it and some people loathe it now.
 
The more I hear of the VH4, the more I think the VH2 sounds better. The VH4 has this character to it that "almost sounds broken", which is hard to put into words. The VH2 is slightly more refined and channel one is the best clean channel ever. I'm not saying I don't want to own a VH4 one day but I'm just super happy with my VH2 I guess :)
 
"I don't know any Tool riffs"=unsubscribed


Just kidding, nice demo Leon. As I mentioned, I sort of have this weird feeling with the VH4 (and Diezel's generally) where I want to love them but they don't sit right with me. At the point where I think the digital models will scratch the itch for me - particularly if there are emulations that come closer to the more modern "brighter" VH4 tone like this one seems to be.

Looking forward to the Fractal comparison, if you're able to check out any plugin versions (like Helix/Brainworx/Amplitube) that would be rad too!
 
@2112
Actually come to think of it, the bass and depth controls are quite low in your video Leon. Any particular reason for that, or you just felt you needed less oomph?
 
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