JC solved the problem of too loud amps!!

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Scroll to 8:45 and learn the gamechanger.


(Types with tears in his eyes from laughing…best ever)

 

[DrewJD82]

I can’t turn down my amp, that’s how I get mah tone. If I can’t crank my amp that gets all it’s distortion from the preamp while having remarkably high headroom in the power section, no one is going to know how much I’m killing it in the extended solo of “Mustang Sally”.

I mean, they’ll hear it just fine, but it won’t have the mojo mah tone requires.

 

[gearJunkie]

 

[Whizzinby]

Cordy cranking out those daily vids “How a volume knob works”

 

[PLX]

 

[la szum]

Went and saw a 4 band lineup Saturday with a friend. 1st band had some bangers
and the vocals were totally buried in the FOH of mix. Like couldn't hear them at
all until the rest oof the band stopped playing for any a capella sections.

It was BAD! Like worse than I ever imagined it could be bad. I could hear the occasional
feedback so I know the FOH engineer was trying to pump them up.

After their set, I went and talked to him---as I tend to hang out by the FOH guys
at any shows I go to. He was livid! "I told them fuckers their stage volume was too
loud."

Then he storms off and hustles the stage to chew some ass I reckon.

It was one guitar, drums, and bass with a lead singer. They were using real amps.

The end is nigh people. None of these new generation of FOH engineers knows
how to properly mix a band using actual amps anymore. It's only going to get
worse.

 

[la szum]

I mean, even the tepid, watered down, white, suburban, vapid blues guy is talking
about amps being too loud, and turning down.

If that doesn't scare the fuck out of you, what will?

 

[Byrdman]

"Let's just have a little bit more of a tickle" - JC

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

I don't get his point.

 

[Whizzinby]

I mean, even the tepid, watered down, white, suburban, vapid blues guy is talking
about amps being too loud, and turning down.

If that doesn't scare the fuck out of you, what will?

It’s kind of bizarre really. I’m not that old, but growing up guitar was never considered a silent endeavor. Everyone owned big ass amps. Nobody had an attenuator. The attenuator was when it got dark out you knew to turn down. Once you got old enough or in a serious enough band you rented a rehearsal space to get high practice in. To listen to some you’d wonder how guitar ever managed to thrive with amps and a lack of total obsession over volume control.

I have an anti-amp/volume - pro-dork, computer nerd takeover theory, but I’ll keep that to myself lololol

 

[Frodebro]

It’s kind of bizarre really. I’m not that old, but growing up guitar was never considered a silent endeavor. Everyone owned big ass amps. Nobody had an attenuator. The attenuator was when it got dark out you knew to turn down. Once you got old enough or in a serious enough band you rented a rehearsal space to get high practice in. To listen to some you’d wonder how guitar ever managed to thrive with amps and a lack of total obsession over volume control.

I have an anti-amp/volume - pro-dork, computer nerd takeover theory, but I’ll keep that to myself lololol

We live in a very different world now than what it was even only ten years ago.

 

[EOengineer]

Went and saw a 4 band lineup Saturday with a friend. 1st band had some bangers
and the vocals were totally buried in the FOH of mix. Like couldn't hear them at
all until the rest oof the band stopped playing for any a capella sections.

It was BAD! Like worse than I ever imagined it could be bad. I could hear the occasional
feedback so I know the FOH engineer was trying to pump them up.

After their set, I went and talked to him---as I tend to hang out by the FOH guys
at any shows I go to. He was livid! "I told them fuckers their stage volume was too
loud."

Then he storms off and hustles the stage to chew some ass I reckon.

It was one guitar, drums, and bass with a lead singer. They were using real amps.

The end is nigh people. None of these new generation of FOH engineers knows
how to properly mix a band using actual amps anymore. It's only going to get
worse.

I was that band Friday night. Small gig in a new venue, unknown PA quality. Both us guitarists decide on tube amps, first time gigging real amps in this project.

We weren’t using big amps - a Budda SD18 and a 2204 clone through an oversized 1x12 cab each. We experienced feedback through large portions of our set. Played great too. We were frustrated to say the least.

 

[PLX]

I mean, even the tepid, watered down, white, suburban, vapid blues guy is talking
about amps being too loud, and turning down.

If that doesn't scare the fuck out of you, what will?

This reminds me of the time I realized, mashed potatoes are just Irish guacamole.

 

[la szum]

I was that band Friday night. Small gig in a new venue, unknown PA quality. Both us guitarists decide on tube amps, first time gigging real amps in this project.

We weren’t using big amps - a Budda SD18 and a 2204 clone through an oversized 1x12 cab each. We experienced feedback through large portions of our set. Played great too. We were frustrated to say the least.

Sorry. That sucks. Then you have to power through like a Pro as if all is good when it is not.

I had never considered the possibility that a younger generation of sound engineers and FOH
people might not know how to work a stage with even moderate volume. It's weird to think
about. Seems at least a little likely, though. They just demand and expect low to no volume stages,
as if that has always been the case.

 

[itchyfingers]

Unpopular opinion: FOH guy is usually right. Unless you don't want people to hear your vocalist, or for some reason you want their mic to feedback and make the crowd go to the next bar. Then go ahead and crank those amps for the amazing tone that only you will notice.

 

[gearJunkie]

Old-school opinion:

FOH guy should have a couple paramedic EQs to notch out offending frequencies in monitors and mains to minimize potential feedback. I guess it's becoming a lost art.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

FOH guy should have a couple paramedic EQs

Yeah keep that feedback ambalanced

 

[Byrdman]

So what is the cure or compromise? Every amp needs an attenuator to get the toanz right and not piss-off the sound guys for being too loud?

Events/venues are upgrading and investing more in their own equipment, and that's less equipment the bands have to bring in. Should be a win/win situation, but it's not working out that way it seems.

 

[JasonE]

Went and saw a 4 band lineup Saturday with a friend. 1st band had some bangers
and the vocals were totally buried in the FOH of mix. Like couldn't hear them at
all until the rest oof the band stopped playing for any a capella sections.

It was BAD! Like worse than I ever imagined it could be bad. I could hear the occasional
feedback so I know the FOH engineer was trying to pump them up.

After their set, I went and talked to him---as I tend to hang out by the FOH guys
at any shows I go to. He was livid! "I told them fuckers their stage volume was too
loud."

Then he storms off and hustles the stage to chew some ass I reckon.

It was one guitar, drums, and bass with a lead singer. They were using real amps.

The end is nigh people. None of these new generation of FOH engineers knows
how to properly mix a band using actual amps anymore. It's only going to get
worse.

Unpopular opinion: FOH guy is usually right. Unless you don't want people to hear your vocalist, or for some reason you want their mic to feedback and make the crowd go to the next bar. Then go ahead and crank those amps for the amazing tone that only you will notice.

Old-school opinion:

FOH guy should have a couple paramedic EQs to notch out offending frequencies in monitors and mains to minimize potential feedback. I guess it's becoming a lost art.

I quoted these 3 posts because the second is an answer to the first that I agree with and the third is something that only goes so far.

I have probably spent as much time behind a mixer as I have on stage playing. There is such a thing as an appropriate volume level for the venue you are in. If the amps are on stage there isn't much you can do about it out front. The stage volume has to be balanced or it affects how people perform because they can't hear themselves. Monitors will only get you so far. If there is a volume war going on the stage, the guitar and bass amps will always win. You can only carve out frequencies so much. If the volume is too loud the feedback will start with another frequency after you pull the most offending one down.

A good example of this is a band I used to run sound for had a guitar player that insisted on bringing a 100 watt head and a 4x12 cabinet for playing in smaller venues. I always had to tell him to turn down because I had him all the way out of the mix and he was still too loud out front. If I had brought everything else up, the venue owner would have asked me to turn it down. This also caused his singer to not be able to hear and would sing harder to try to get more volume. One night after the first song, I walked up to the stage and told him that he gets to decide how the band sounded that night. He could either lave his amp turned up and cause his singer to blow her voice out before the end of the night and the audience would only hear his guitar all night or he could turn down and I could make them sound good. He begrudgingly turned down. He had a relative with him that night. After the first set he asked him how they sounded and he said it sounded great. He then walked over and thanked me for making him turn down. I told him that I am a guitar player too and I get liking to get the amp cooking but you just can't do it in that small of a place. He would argue with me before that and tell me his amp had to be that loud to get his tone. This night was kind of the last straw for me. I was tired of the argument and if he had left the amp up I was quitting at the end of the night.

I have coached others in every band I have played in about stage volume. It helps having experience on both sides of the situation. I have had sound guys compliment us for being so easy to mix because we have our stage volume under control.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I quoted these 3 posts because the second is an answer to the first that I agree with and the third is something that only goes so far.

I have probably spent as much time behind a mixer as I have on stage playing. There is such a thing as an appropriate volume level for the venue you are in. If the amps are on stage there isn't much you can do about it out front. The stage volume has to be balanced or it affects how people perform because they can't hear themselves. Monitors will only get you so far. If there is a volume war going on the stage, the guitar and bass amps will always win. You can only carve out frequencies so much. If the volume is too loud the feedback will start with another frequency after you pull the most offending one down.

A good example of this is a band I used to run sound for had a guitar player that insisted on bringing a 100 watt head and a 4x12 cabinet for playing in smaller venues. I always had to tell him to turn down because I had him all the way out of the mix and he was still too loud out front. If I had brought everything else up, the venue owner would have asked me to turn it down. This also caused his singer to not be able to hear and would sing harder to try to get more volume. One night after the first song, I walked up to the stage and told him that he gets to decide how the band sounded that night. He could either lave his amp turned up and cause his singer to blow her voice out before the end of the night and the audience would only hear his guitar all night or he could turn down and I could make them sound good. He begrudgingly turned down. He had a relative with him that night. After the first set he asked him how they sounded and he said it sounded great. He then walked over and thanked me for making him turn down. I told him that I am a guitar player too and I get liking to get the amp cooking but you just can't do it in that small of a place. He would argue with me before that and tell me his amp had to be that loud to get his tone. This night was kind of the last straw for me. I was tired of the argument and if he had left the amp up I was quitting at the end of the night.

I have coached others in every band I have played in about stage volume. It helps having experience on both sides of the situation. I have had sound guys compliment us for being so easy to mix because we have our stage volume under control.

It's amazing how a simple conversation amongst band members can make for a 1000% better experience for the audience. We play and we do have some volume. But never enough to overpower the PA. That's just dumb.


On the other end of this conversation; I often wonder why a venue wants to hire a band only so they can complain they are too loud. And this is in cases where the musicians aren't thinking they're Richie Blackmore 1976 or wtever and are playing at reasonable levels.