Innocence Faded Is A Gem!

[TSJMajesty]

That outro solo always got me. It just sounds so cool!

I've had this one on my list of songs to learn from (not necessarily learn the song), and I went back to it today to look at it little closer.

It is not only packed with all sorts of cool techniques, but it's like a template of sorts as to how to write cool-sounding solos over an interesting chord progression. I have no idea how he came up with the progression (I'm referring to the one that gets repeated a few times, and is also in the end of the song), but he's simply outlining the chords as arpeggios for that outro solo. And the other solos are similarly outlining the chords.

And as far as technique goes, you could use this song to practice that outro solo 3 ways: The way the tabs have it as string skipping, single NPS, or by sweeping the arpeggios. (I still can't play any up to speed, but I still come back to this song time and again, and work on all 3 ways, trying to figure out what works best for me.)

To me, a song like this screams: Study Me, since it shows a fairly basic way of coming up with ideas to accentuate your solos..., basic in the way of choosing your notes. Just not so basic in how you express them.

The style, the musicality, the various rhythms, the cool little "chuggas", it's just packed with great songwriting!

Maybe if he didn't blow such a big load back in this era, he'd still be coming up with fresh ideas, instead of having to go weird scales and time signature extremes. <cough> The Alien <cough>

 

[Blix]

Just and epic solo, and quite Vai-ish in parts. This was before he turned into Steve Morse

Man I love that album so much


I just remembered something really cool from back then, Headbanger's Ball on MTV aired some live DT in 1994 were they were playing some Awake material before the album was out, this aired at like 4am here in Norway. I nearly jizzed my pants from hearing Cauth in a web for the first time

And of course it's now on YouTube:



Fun fact, Jordan Rudess on keys here! The one gig he did before Derek took over.

Glad I got to see them on that tour a year later.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Just and epic solo, and quite Vai-ish in parts.

Exactly what I thought when hearing it the first few times.

 

[metropolis_4]

This was the golden era of DT.

I liked Petrucci’s playing so much better back when he was more focused on melody and phrasing than speed.

I also liked their music better back when they were more prog/fusion inspired

 

[DrewJD82]

Just and epic solo, and quite Vai-ish in parts. This was before he turned into Steve Morse

Man I love that album so much


I just remembered something really cool from back then, Headbanger's Ball on MTV aired some live DT in 1994 were they were playing some Awake material before the album was out, this aired at like 4am here in Norway. I nearly jizzed my pants from hearing Cauth in a web for the first time

And of course it's now on YouTube:



Fun fact, Jordan Rudess on keys here! The one gig he did before Derek took over.

Glad I got to see them on that tour a year later.

I’ve got a bootleg of that whole Rudess show somewhere, probably on a CD in a box I’ll never see again. It was pretty cool, mostly because the “Holy sh*t, that dude programmed all those sounds and learned all that sh*t for one gig” factor.

IIRR, Jordan was the first choice for a replacement after Moore left but he didn’t think the timing was right for him, I know they asked him and I think the whole situation was basically “I can’t join full time right now, I can help you with a show but I’ll decline the offer for now”, to which DT wasted no time in sh*tcanning Derek when the time WAS right. Kind of odd, hearing the Home For The Holidays bootlegs and how friendly the band was to each other onstage, all the while they knew full and well once those shows were over, Derek was getting canned. I was at one of them and Derek was on the mic quite a bit cracking jokes and working his personality into the set (rarities/covers set, not a usual DT show).

I never would have guessed in a million years those would be his last shows by the way the band acted onstage together. And neither would have Derek, for that matter.

 

[la szum]

Am I the only one who feels like the DT sideways turn has a lot to do with Rudess and the doubling
down on technique and speed and flurries of notes (often in unison/harmony between Rudess and
Pterucci) over the prior emphasis on melody and phrasing?

Maybe this is just my way of saying Rudess is my LEAST favourite keyboard player in the history of DT.

He's certainly accomplished. Just not a fan of his version of what musicality is.

 

[Blix]

Am I the only one who feels like the DT sideways turn has a lot to do with Rudess and the doubling
down on technique and speed and flurries of notes (often in unison/harmony between Rudess and
Pterucci) over the prior emphasis on melody and phrasing?

Maybe this is just my way of saying Rudess is my LEAST favourite keyboard player in the history of DT.

He's certainly accomplished. Just not a fan of his version of what musicality is.

I 100% agree.

 

[TSJMajesty]

This was the golden era of DT.

I liked Petrucci’s playing so much better back when he was more focused on melody and phrasing than speed.

I also liked their music better back when they were more prog/fusion inspired

Yeah...., my take on that is that former DT fans all have an album at about which point they lost interest. Mine was after Portnoy left. There's a few songs here and there that I really like, but in general I'm noticing the creative well is drying up, and they're trying stuff that's not as musical as they used to be.

But I really don't see JP having become more of a shredder, and playing less melodic solos.

Am I the only one who feels like the DT sideways turn has a lot to do with Rudess and the doubling
down on technique and speed and flurries of notes (often in unison/harmony between Rudess and
Pterucci) over the prior emphasis on melody and phrasing?

Maybe this is just my way of saying Rudess is my LEAST favourite keyboard player in the history of DT.

He's certainly accomplished. Just not a fan of his version of what musicality is.

Nah, I don't think so. I think it has everything to do with Portnoy not being there. He was very involved in every aspect of the songs' creation. He co-produced with JP also. Remove him, and you have 2 techno-wizards doing most all the writing, without Portnoy's ADD to help mix things up.

The more 'polished' a player is, the less ragged edges they have, which between JR and Mangini, Idk which one is more of a robot. Portnoy just brought a dynamic to not only his drumming, but also the whole picture, that's just not there now.

 

[la szum]

Well, I think so.

Even with Portnoy in the band up until 2010 DT's musical direction was
becoming more redundant and cliched, in my opinion. The common denominator
from 1999 to now is Rudess, not Portnoy.

And the best era of DT is widely considered the material in the 1990's up until Rudess
joined as a full-time active member. The one exception being the 1st album with
Rudess, Metroplis Pt. 2: Scenes From A Memory.

 

[la szum]

I really need to go through the entire DT catalog again in chronological order. This is something I enjoy
doing with artists and their catalogs.

You know your DT way better than I ever will, Tom.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I really need to go through the entire DT catalog again in chronological order. This is something I enjoy
doing with artists and their catalogs.

I couldn't do that.

 

[metropolis_4]

Well, I think so.

Even with Portnoy in the band up until 2010 DT's musical direction was
becoming more redundant and cliched, in my opinion. The common denominator
from 1999 to now is Rudess, not Portnoy.

And the best era of DT is widely considered the material in the 1990's up until Rudess
joined as a full-time active member. The one exception being the 1st album with
Rudess, Metroplis Pt. 2: Scenes From A Memory.

I agree mostly. I think you’re both right. I think there might have been more going on internally though; not entirely Rudess. I know Portnoy was getting burned out and I’m sure that wasn’t helping.

It really is interesting how different combinations of creative input and playing styles creates different music.

I think this is why my favorite era was when Sherinian was with them.

Petrucci’s metal tendencies with Portnoy’s Zappa influence and Sherinian’s classic rock vibe was a really great combination.

Now the combination of Petrucci + Rudess + Mangini is so clinical. Three technical players together makes for some amazingly technical but not very artistically inspiring music

 

[TSJMajesty]

I think this is why my favorite era was when Sherinian was with them.

Petrucci’s metal tendencies with Portnoy’s Zappa influence and Sherinian’s classic rock vibe was a really great combination.

Yes it was!! FII was my intro to DT, and still holds a very special place for me. Plus Derek is a big Elton John fan, which I am too, and I could hear a bit of his influence in the music. Like Anna Lee.

 

[la szum]

Sherinian knows how to write a hook, and is a better texturalist than Rudess is, in my opinion. He uses
real guitar amps live, too. He has a bit of Jon Lord in him.

Have seen Derek a few times since the DT days. Once with Sons Of Apollo and once with Black Country
Communion. For anyone into DT style music with better vocals and some decent hooks without losing
the "Prog" elements check out the Sons of Apollo stuff. It is fucking epic!

 

[la szum]

I know Portnoy was getting burned out and I’m sure that wasn’t helping.

Otherwise known as having to listen to LaBrie sing every night.

I am glad Portnoy left. He has done some great stuff outside of DT. I suspect
his musical tastes are more varied and diverse than Petrucci's tastes are. Sure
shows in the variety of projects he has done since 2010.

 

[la szum]

So I started working my way through the entire DT catalog today. Up to Awake now.

Thoughts:

Man, Petrucci had those 90's tones going on. Very Nu-Metalish in spots--especially in
the parts with heavier riffing/rhythms. Kind of surprises me. But that was the era.
Not like it is just one tone, though. I like the variety of clean and dirty tones he was
crafting. Some of his volume rolled back tones are

Also, LaBrie is just not a very melodic singer (was he ever?) and his range is severely limited
by how he stays in his head voice/upper register so much of the time.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Sherinian knows how to write a hook, and is a better texturalist than Rudess is, in my opinion. He uses
real guitar amps live, too. He has a bit of Jon Lord in him.

Have seen Derek a few times since the DT days. Once with Sons Of Apollo and once with Black Country
Communion. For anyone into DT style music with better vocals and some decent hooks without losing
the "Prog" elements check out the Sons of Apollo stuff. It is f*****g epic!

I love those guys!! Ron is a certified freak of a player!! And I like that they do some cover songs, even DT.

 

[TSJMajesty]

So I started working my way through the entire DT catalog today. Up to Awake now.

I bet you don't finish! I tried 3x's to get through The Astonishing, and it just wasn't happening.

Back when they were auditioning drummers, I would've thought that Marco Minneman would've taken them in a truly fresh direction.

 

[metropolis_4]

Yes it was!! FII was my intro to DT, and still holds a very special place for me. Plus Derek is a big Elton John fan, which I am too, and I could hear a bit of his influence in the music. Like Anna Lee.

I actually didn’t know that, but now you say it I can hear it!

I guess that’s where Funeral for a Friend and Love Lies Bleeding came from on A Change of Seasons. I always liked those covers.

So I started working my way through the entire DT catalog today. Up to Awake now.

Thoughts:

Man, Petrucci had those 90's tones going on. Very Nu-Metalish in spots--especially in
the parts with heavier riffing/rhythms. Kind of surprises me. But that was the era.
Not like it is just one tone, though. I like the variety of clean and dirty tones he was
crafting. Some of his volume rolled back tones are

Also, LaBrie is just not a very melodic singer (was he ever?) and his range is severely limited
by how he stays in his head voice/upper register so much of the time.

I think Awake was when he started using Mesa exclusively, and I think it’s where he first started using a Dual Rec for some rhythm parts. Probably played a big part in it having that 90s Nu-Metal vibe in places

I bet you don't finish! I tried 3x's to get through The Astonishing, and it just wasn't happening.

Back when they were auditioning drummers, I would've thought that Marco Minneman would've taken them in a truly fresh direction.

I was pulling for Virgil Donati. Mangini might have been my last choice. His skill and technique are mind blowing, but he’s so clinical and I’ve never found him particularly interesting.

 

[la szum]

I bet you don't finish! I tried 3x's to get through The Astonishing, and it just wasn't happening.

Back when they were auditioning drummers, I would've thought that Marco Minneman would've taken them in a truly fresh direction.

Haha! 4 down and 11 to go.

Just started Metropolis. Trying to do 2 albums per day. I wonder if some of my
assumptions and prior thoughts and feelings will be changed.

Noticing an huge shift in Petrucci's tones from Awake/Falling to Metroplis.

Oh, and I agree Portnoy was indispensable to what Dream Theater was, and
Mike just doesn't have that same skill set. Portnoy is a drummer/musician/arranger/
producer, and Mangini is kind of just a drummer---a damn good one.