Fret wire feel

[Boudoir Guitar]

I know this has been talked about a million times. But nickel-silver vs EVO with a reference made to stainless:

I've gotten a bit of GAS for a used Grez Mendocino. It has EVO fret wire. I have concerns.

I had a Harmony Juno and never could quite get on with it for various reasons, one of which was despite loving the neck carve, I didn't like the feeling of pressing the strings into the stainless steel frets. Not talking about the slipperiness of bends/vibrato - kinda dug that. But just general fretting felt like going from my nice regular mattress to spending the night on the crappy guest-bed. Or maybe more accurately, it just felt like the neck/frets were out of balance with the force I apply to the strings -- like it was cracking nuts with a sledgehammer. Like falling on ice compared to asphalt -- both hurt, and it really doesn't seem like there is any give to falling on asphalt, but then you fall on ice and are grateful for the modest level of compliance the asphalt provides in comparison to ice. Or maybe, like ice, its that moderate level of extra slipperiness underfoot even when not bending that just makes everything else about it feel different?

Was this all in my head, or is that a thing? Thoughts @Eagle ?

I've owned acoustics with harder fret wire and didn't have the same problem, but I also string my acoustics with 14s...the Harmony just felt like the feedback from the neck/fret was completely out of balance on those slinky electric strings on 25" scale. The Grez is also a 25" scale. I owned the Harmony for a solid 8 months and never really "got used to it" because I always have at least one other guitar with nickel-silver frets kicking around that I also play a ton.

I COULD play the Grez in person but would require a 4-hour drive each way. Store does do returns (48 hour window), but I'm out shipping both ways and a 5% restocking fee which is probably pushing up into the ~$300-out-of-pocket range (totally reasonable and where I think a lot of places should head because I'm tired of funding some of y'alls "thanks for the at home demo that involved 3 gigs, Sweetwater!" practices )

 

[Eagle]

The ONLY thing that you feel is how the two metals rub together and interact as it is impossible to feel hardness across these differences (175 ~ 300 ish on the vickers scale). Some players are so heavy handed that this matters a lot because the softer wound strings get destroyed on harder frets. If you can relax your fretting hand to the point of a clean note but no excessive pressure the fretwire differences are greatly reduced from the feel perspective until you bend strings.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

The ONLY thing that you feel is how the two metals rub together and interact as it is impossible to feel hardness across these differences (175 ~ 300 ish on the vickers scale). Some players are so heavy handed that this matters a lot because the softer wound strings get destroyed on harder frets. If you can relax your fretting hand to the point of a clean note but no excessive pressure the fretwire differences are greatly reduced from the feel perspective until you bend strings.

Thanks. I think this makes sense -- for my playing style, if I take out the notes where I'm sliding, or adding liiiiiiittle bit of vibrato, or tweaking a 1/4-1/3 step bend (i.e., not "bending" but also not just dropping my finger straight in a fixed perpendicular like to the string)...there aren't a whole lot of notes left. And I think it's those techniques where it bothers me, even if it doesn't bother me for something like a whole-step bend.

My fret hand is not overly aggressive -- I'm pretty easy on frets, overall. I think it's just a matter of playing one thing for 35 years and not having any real inclination to change. I think a best strategy for me, then, on the Grez GAS front is to make a trip down to Boston to play a couple and if I find the frets as annoying as I did the stainless but otherwise love the guitar, talk to them about ordering one built with nickel-silver wire.

 

[Achilles]

Was this all in my head.

Pretty much.

Nickel silver (there's actually no silver in it) rates around 180-200 on the EV5 hardness scale.
Stainless comes in around 300.

EVO sits pretty much in the middle at around 240-250.

Be willing to bet that the differences you think you felt between nickel and SS were mostly subliminal.
The majority of luthiers will tell you the same thing.

EVO sitting in the middle should obviously be even less of a 'thing' once your brain gets out of the way
and you're lost in playing.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Pretty much.

Nickel silver (there's actually no silver in it) rates around 180-200 on the EV5 hardness scale.
The hardest stainless comes in around 300.

EVO sits pretty much in the middle at around 240-250.

Be willing to bet that the differences you think you felt between nickel and SS were mostly subliminal.
The majority of luthiers will tell you the same thing.

EVO sitting in the middle should obviously be even less of a 'thing' once your brain gets out of the way
and you're lost in playing.

Spoiler - there's also no gold in EVO gold, bruh.

 

[Eagle]

Thanks. I think this makes sense -- for my playing style, if I take out the notes where I'm sliding, or adding liiiiiiittle bit of vibrato, or tweaking a 1/4-1/3 step bend (i.e., not "bending" but also not just dropping my finger straight in a fixed perpendicular like to the string)...there aren't a whole lot of notes left. And I think it's those techniques where it bothers me, even if it doesn't bother me for something like a whole-step bend.

My fret hand is not overly aggressive -- I'm pretty easy on frets, overall. I think it's just a matter of playing one thing for 35 years and not having any real inclination to change. I think a best strategy for me, then, on the Grez GAS front is to make a trip down to Boston to play a couple and if I find the frets as annoying as I did the stainless but otherwise love the guitar, talk to them about ordering one built with nickel-silver wire.

It is how hard you pick that has the most effect on fret wear after string bending.

 

[Achilles]

Spoiler - there's also no gold in EVO gold, bruh.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

It is how hard you pick that has the most effect on fret wear after string bending.

I also use pure nickel rather than nickel plated strings...so the softer string wrap may also play a bit into all of this.

 

[Achilles]

It is how hard you pick that has the most effect on fret wear after string bending.

Static string vibrations are easily the #1 cause of wear.
Far and away more-so than any bending.

 

[Eagle]

Static string vibrations are easily the #1 cause of wear.
Far and away more-so than any bending.

Unless you are a heavy blues player. SRV style bending is brutal . But yes for most people static vibrations from corroded strings is no1. I said bending because it can surpass it according to the player.

 

[metropolis_4]

I also use pure nickel rather than nickel plated strings...so the softer string wrap may also play a bit into all of this.

That is a consideration. I can’t use pure nickel on SS frets because the frets chew through the nickel wraps so fast.

 

[Achilles]

Elixir coated strings work great with SS.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I can feel a difference from EVO to Nickel. I currently don't have any SS.
Most of my guitars have EVO jumbo or super jumbo, and Dunlop 6000s. It's probably more apparent with the larger wire. EVO has a slightly stiffer feel, notes feel a little bit quicker in the fingers. Nickel is slightly softer attack. Very subtle differences but I can feel them.

 

[Frankencat]

On a side note, I just bought a spool of EVO 57110.