Diezel preamp pedals: Herbert or VH4-2?

[gergohajer]

I really love these two preamp pedals, especially when I connect them to a tube power amp. But I keep asking myself that I should invest in a real Diezel tube amp. Which one do you guys prefer, the Herbert or the VH4?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

There are some good YouTube videos (Lasse and Reza) comparing the two against the real amps. How close they are is going to depend on a ton of factors, but they quite clearly won't ever be a 1:1 replacement. If you love them it's probably worth grabbing an amp and trying for yourself, there's no substitute for trying it for your needs in your own environment. Until you try for yourself you'll always wonder about it.

I owned a Herbert MK1 amp and wasn't a big fan of it. Before owning it, I thought I wanted a VH4 but I now hear a lot of the characteristics I didn't like about the Herbert across the other Diezel amps. Quite happy to just use modelling if I need the Diezel thing

 

[gergohajer]

There are some good YouTube videos comparing the two. How close they are is going to depend on a ton of factors, but they quite clearly won't ever be a 1:1 replacement. If you love them it's probably worth grabbing an amp and trying for yourself, there's no substitute for trying it for your needs in your own environment. Until you try for yourself you'll always wonder about it.

I owned a Herbert MK1 amp and wasn't a big fan of it. Before owning it, I thought I wanted a VH4 but I now hear a lot of the characteristics I didn't like about the Herbert across the other Diezel amps. Quite happy to just use modelling if I need the Diezel thing

Most of the time I use Kemper profiles if I want to jam with different Diezel amps, but for some reason I really want a real deal Diezel. But it's just too pricy for me to buy it as a "test run". Btw, the mid-cut option on the Herbert got my attention.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Most of the time I use Kemper profiles if I want to jam with different Diezel amps, but for some reason I really want a real deal Diezel. But it's just too pricy for me to buy it as a "test run". Btw, the mid-cut option on the Herbert got my attention.

I guess it depends on how you typically use the amps, IMO the Kemper is quite far from the experience of using the real thing. I made lots of Kemper profiles of my Herbert before selling it, as well as ToneX models. Even though they sound very much like how I dialled them in, the experience is totally different. It’s not really a substitute IMO.

The STL, Brainworx, QC and Fractal models all give a pretty good experience of what the amp is like to use controls and layout wise. But even with those, I think you’d just be left wondering what the real thing is like until you hear for yourself.

Amps are for sure expensive, but if it’s a sound you really love and/or need then it’s worth aiming for. Someone who is looking to buy a £200 pedal is likely comparing against other options in that price bracket rather than as an alternate option for an amp. The good thing with the real amps is they hold their value pretty well. There tends to be better deals on Diezel in Europe than we typically see for Bogner/Friedman/Soldano etc too, I paid £1500 for my Herbert and I’ve seen VH4’s go for around that too.

Tbh if you love the pedals and models of it, it’s worth the punt in trying the real thing.

 

[gergohajer]

I guess it depends on how you typically use the amps, IMO the Kemper is quite far from the experience of using the real thing. I made lots of Kemper profiles of my Herbert before selling it, as well as ToneX models. Even though they sound very much like how I dialled them in, the experience is totally different. It’s not really a substitute IMO.

The STL, Brainworx, QC and Fractal models all give a pretty good experience of what the amp is like to use controls and layout wise. But even with those, I think you’d just be left wondering what the real thing is like until you hear for yourself.

Amps are for sure expensive, but if it’s a sound you really love and/or need then it’s worth aiming for. Someone who is looking to buy a £200 pedal is likely comparing against other options in that price bracket rather than as an alternate option for an amp. The good thing with the real amps is they hold their value pretty well. There tends to be better deals on Diezel in Europe than we typically see for Bogner/Friedman/Soldano etc too, I paid £1500 for my Herbert and I’ve seen VH4’s go for around that too.

Tbh if you love the pedals and models of it, it’s worth the punt in trying the real thing.

I tried the STL Gasoline and I liked it a lot. I think it captures the MK3 version of the Herbert. For some reason the Brainworx versions didn't worked for me... Sure, I know what is the deal when I buy a tube amp because I have a small collection of tube amps, but the Diezel price range is a bit out of my comfort zone right now, due that the Hungarian HUF currency worth nothing in the market right now, so it's truly painful to order anything in EUR/USD.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

But I keep asking myself that I should invest in a real Diezel tube amp

I think you’ve answered your question here then - if buying is not viable, you already have various other options. You don’t even really need to worry about picking VH4 or Herbert, you can have both and save money and space.

Still, if you really really really do want it, deals do come up. Maybe someone local has one you can try? It’s for sure worth the experience - even though I didn’t end up liking the Herbert too much, playing and experiencing the real thing was totally unlike playing models of it, and it absolutely informed how I go about using the models (and what to expect from them) ever since. Once you’ve played the real thing, you get a better sense of what it was designed to do, how you typically dial it in, what its quirks are.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'm actually wondering how well these work when sent into whatever pedal platform amp. And what would possibly be the best amp topology to send them into?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I'm actually wondering how well these work when sent into whatever pedal platform amp. And what would possibly be the best amp topology to send them into?

LOL at anyone using a VH4 or Herbert through a Fender Twin or any kind of combo.

VH4 poweramp is kind of Marshall derived, but the NFB of both amps gives a particular feel to the response and interactions of the cab.

Herbert’s poweramp is 180W, and it’s designed to push a lot of low end and have a lot of headroom. Trying to approximate that feel with anything other than a Herbert poweramp+4x12 seems like it’s missing the point to me (if you want a Herbert experience).

Most of the Diezel models sound pretty good to me, for going direct you’ll get a pretty solid approximation of the tone. For playing in the room, you’re making a lot of sacrifices that’ll take away from it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

LOL at anyone using a VH4 or Herbert through a Fender Twin or any kind of combo.

As I'm using modeled amps anyway, I'd have all the freedom to run them into whatever I feel like. I'd never even try with a Twin to start with (unless it's running into a totally non typical cab).

 

[MirrorProfiles]

As I'm using modeled amps anyway, I'd have all the freedom to run them into whatever I feel like. I'd never even try with a Twin to start with (unless it's running into a totally non typical cab).

At that point I'd just use a modeller, Helix and Fractal Diezel models are solid. Even a really accurate pedal or Synergy model wouldn't really bring much to the table if you are combining it with digital stuff anyway. There's a fair bit of overlap with the Herbert and VH4 sonically, another case of balancing trade offs if you're using the Helix.

 

[Sascha Franck]

At that point I'd just use a modeller, Helix and Fractal Diezel models are solid.

Well, I actually dig using some baseline amp models and slapping analog dirt boxes in front. Makes up for a super versatile live setup.