112 Tube Amps

[CakeEater]

What are your thoughts on 112s? I've been in the digital modelling sphere for a few years now, but I recently bought a 112 Supro Keeley Custom 12. It's a 25W Class A tube amp, and I'm really enjoying it. Using my Helix as a pedalboard It's greatly simplified my workflow, and the tones are great.

It got me thinking that my two "FRFR" wedge monitors that I've been using for a few years are basically the cost of small tube amps. They're coaxial 12-inch wedge monitors and about €1000 each. At a certain point I thought to myself, why not just get a tube amp? It's about the same size and only a little bit heavier. The Keeley comes in at 18 kilos which is a breeze.

Because I'm enjoying it so much, I thought about maybe building a small collection of tube amps. But I don't really have an interest in getting anything bigger than a 112, which already seems manageable volume-wise and weight-wise. With my "FRFR" monitors I was using 212 or 412 IRs, but I have I have to say even as an open-back the Supro seems to have great lower mids, which really fills it out. That said, I don't gig that much, only a few times a year in pubs and churches. So, for people who use tube amps regularly, is a good 112 enough? I play mostly indie-rock, post-rock and P&W. All thoughts and opinions welcome!

 

[spawnofthesith]

For the styles you mentioned I would say absolutely. For modern high gain sounds open backs are a little meh, but can still be made to work

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

What are your thoughts on 112s? I've been in the digital modelling sphere for a few years now, but I recently bought a 112 Supro Keeley Custom 12. It's a 25W Class A tube amp, and I'm really enjoying it. Using my Helix as a pedalboard It's greatly simplified my workflow, and the tones are great.

It got me thinking that my two ""FRFR"" wedge monitors that I've been using for a few years are basically the cost of small tube amps. They're coaxial 12-inch wedge monitors and about €1000 each. At a certain point I thought to myself, why not just get a tube amp? It's about the same size and only a little bit heavier. The Keeley comes in at 18 kilos which is a breeze.

Because I'm enjoying it so much, I thought about maybe building a small collection of tube amps. But I don't really have an interest in getting anything bigger than a 112, which already seems manageable volume-wise and weight-wise. With my ""FRFR"" monitors I was using 212 or 412 IRs, but I have I have to say even as an open-back the Supro seems to have great lower mids, which really fills it out. That said, I don't gig that much, only a few times a year in pubs and churches. So, for people who use tube amps regularly, is a good 112 enough? I play mostly indie-rock, post-rock and P&W. All thoughts and opinions welcome!

The problem I ran into with 1x10 and 1x12 tube amps where I was mostly playing at home and then on rare occasion opening them up with a band: it really felt like a new/different rig every time I used it kind of opened up, and I wasn't using it in that manner often enough to find a sweet spot and be able to easily transition between "how I use it at home" and "how I use it loudly". Modelers have their own headaches, but are also a loooooot closer to "well, I just want this sound louder so I just turn the volume knob up, right?" than sub-50 watt combo amps.

 

[itchyfingers]

I suppose it depends on what kinda power that 1x12 is being fed. A 22w Deluxe Reverb and an 85W Mark IV are hugely different amps, both running to a single 12" speaker.

That being said, if you're only gigging pubs and churches, a low wattage 1x12 would probably be perfect. Mic it up and send it thru the PA if you're not able to hang with the drummer and other amplified instruments.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I suppose it depends on what kinda power that 1x12 is being fed. A 22w Deluxe Reverb and an 85W Mark IV are hugely different amps, both running to a single 12" speaker.

Both these amps seem to manage to rip my head off though

That said I think theres at least 8 more numbers on the IV volume knob that I'm too scared to find out what happens when accessed

 

[Achilles]

Both these amps seem to manage to rip my head off though

That said I think theres at least 8 more numbers on the IV volume knob that I'm too scared to find out what happens when accessed

re: Fender volume

I stood in front of a LOT of really loud amps and there was only one that actually hurt and I'd avoid
wandering anywhere close to its on axis range - a Fender Twin with EVs and mounted up on a chair.
Swear the guy had to be deaf in his upper frequencies because the piercing treble coming off those monster
12s would make your entire skull hurt.

I've been having little pieces of my childhood fillings falling out a lot these past few years and I swear it's that fucking
Fender's fault.

 

[CakeEater]

The problem I ran into with 1x10 and 1x12 tube amps where I was mostly playing at home and then on rare occasion opening them up with a band: it really felt like a new/different rig every time I used it kind of opened up, and I wasn't using it in that manner often enough to find a sweet spot and be able to easily transition between "how I use it at home" and "how I use it loudly". Modelers have their own headaches, but are also a loooooot closer to "well, I just want this sound louder so I just turn the volume knob up, right?" than sub-50 watt combo amps.

That's a really good point, I've been meaning to go to the church hall on an evening when it's not in use to figure out where to set the volume and master volume for gigging volumes so that the gain and breakup are in the same ballpark as house volumes.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

That's a really good point, I've been meaning to go to the church hall on an evening when it's not in use to figure out where to set the volume and master volume for gigging volumes so that the gain and breakup are in the same ballpark as house volumes.

Take your whole pedalboard -- your "slight volume boost" may turn into a "not much volume boost but lots of added compression and some clipping". Especially if you are running reverbs/delays in front of the amp...the added compression can also result in a need to adjust delay feedback amount to get same number of repeats, etc.

 

[CakeEater]

Take your whole pedalboard -- your "slight volume boost" may turn into a "not much volume boost but lots of added compression and some clipping". Especially if you are running reverbs/delays in front of the amp...the added compression can also result in a need to adjust delay feedback amount to get same number of repeats, etc.

Good point, I'll bring the whole rig for sure.

 

[bikescene]

I'm a recent fan of the 1x12 combo format. I just got a Vox AC15C1, which fits the description. At about 50lbs, it's comparable in weight to a loaded 2x12 extension cab. I bought a $10 dolly from Home Depot that I am permanently keeping underneath the amp, so transport isn't a concern.

I bought the AC15 for cleans and breakup, although the cranked rock sounds are attainable with its master volume.

I've been adding or building tube amps to my collection sporadically, after relying on modeling for most of my playing years. Modeling has sort of been my gateway to checking out more amps. It's fun to have both tube amps and modeling if one can support it.

 

[Byrdman]

1/2 as good as a 212

 

[Achilles]

church

Can ya be more specific?

this?

or this?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

These are “clip the poweramp symptoms”…would one expect that in a pub / church?

Nope. They are “poweramp is compressing” things, that happens WAY earlier in sub-25 watt tube amps than most realize. A Princeton reverb (12-15 watts) behaved noticeably differently for me with my pedals at modest at home volume compared to just kinda loud at home volume.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

1x12 should cover a pub just fine..where a 15w amp looses its cleans sooner then a 100w.
Ime cabsize has a very big impact…a 1x10 in a champ can sound boxy….in an oversized cab you fix that.

I like to use 2 smaller amps…mostly for my own kicks…stereo fills my spot nicely

If weight is a big concern, check blackstar st James,,,that’s 50w tubes you can lift with a finger.

My point isn't whether it'll work fine -- of course a 1x12 is a GREAT option for pub/church gigs. Just giving a warning that moving from an modeler/"FRFR" rig that is always working well within its headroom limits both at home and at church is going to be a very different experience than using a 25 watt tube amp where at church its going to be in a very different part of its "power band" with respect to compression, even if its running "clean".

 

[CakeEater]

Can ya be more specific?

this?

or this?

lol, not as basic as the top but about 100 years too old to be the below!

 

[CakeEater]

1x12 should cover a pub just fine..where a 15w amp looses its cleans sooner then a 100w.
Ime cabsize has a very big impact…a 1x10 in a champ can sound boxy….in an oversized cab you fix that.

I like to use 2 smaller amps…mostly for my own kicks…stereo fills my spot nicely

If weight is a big concern, check blackstar st James,,,that’s 50w tubes you can lift with a finger.

Interesting, I’ve been using a Helix and two wedge monitors for a few years, so I’ve gotten very used to stereo. I’m actually thinking of picking up another Supro Keeley so I can go full tube stereo with the Helix effects. That’s one of the reasons I asked this question actually, I don’t want to be putting my eggs in the wrong basket.

What’s the difference in volume like using two amps compared to one? I know the science of loudness is a bit weird!

 

[PatF]

I reliably used a Marshallized 50W Bassman and a DIY sealed combo 1x12 at practice with a really loud hard rock band for around a year. My 4x12s were getting too beat up and heavy. I got a lot of compliments on how it sounded. I did have the head a separate shell.

 

[laxu]

The last 1x12 combo I bought was a Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead. 45W, Fender clean, Marshall overdrive, built in tube boost, good stuff. I wanted the head, but it would have taken several months for the store to order one.

But god damn, that thing must've been made out of gold bullion because it weighs as much as a Fender Super Reverb. At the time I lived in an apartment on top of a hill and had my car parked down the street so I thought "eh, can't be bothered to move the car up here, I'll just carry the amp, it's only like 200 meters".

With one top handle, 30 kg weight...it was a struggle. I ended up picking the amp with two hands and carrying it like a box. Which barely helped since it's an awkward size to carry even a short distance.

After that ordeal, I decided I will never again buy a combo amp. I turned the Bogner into a head and cab and that made transporting it easy - a ~15 kg head in one hand and the combo chassis as a cab in another.

I have nothing against 1x12s otherwise. I currently use two 1x12 BluGuitar cabs and they sound great together.

 

[laxu]

Interesting, I’ve been using a Helix and two wedge monitors for a few years, so I’ve gotten very used to stereo. I’m actually thinking of picking up another Supro Keeley so I can go full tube stereo with the Helix effects. That’s one of the reasons I asked this question actually, I don’t want to be putting my eggs in the wrong basket.

You might run into issues where just managing the volume of the two real amps is a bit of a chore. While it's easier with two identical amps, I gave up on a stereo real amp rig when I had two different amps because one would easily overpower the other if the volumes were not just right.

Have you considered a stereo poweramp and a couple of 1x12 cabs instead?

 

[laxu]

Any 30kg should travel with a trolly…even if you don’t do the 200 m sprint with it
..and 30kg is one extreme side of the spectrum right?…plenty of amps are far more manageable.
That said…there is very little gear you wanna carry 200m…

Question is…how far do you wanna go to prevent you having to carry more then you like?
I don’t wanna play sh***y stuff all year, just to mitigate the risk of one gig per year with a longer walk to stage…I got a trolly in my car for that
I plan for the “average” gig in my book…and then something like a deluxe, even my sonic 60 is fine, and I always have a stJames & superchamp when I know upfront there’s gonna be some hauling gear…all tube combos

Maybe when you do 200 shows a year carrying your own into unknown venues it’s a different story..

I'm happy with BluGuitar for this. About 15 kg with the Fatcab, about 11 with the Nanocab.

But even traditional tube gear can be made better and lighter. Manufacturers just aren't interested.